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Windshield wipers are horrible, and arguably dangerous

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Here is an idea for manual control via the stalk:

Tap stalk:

Initiate a single wipe (as normal), but also set a timer counting.


Then either Tap stalk again within 10 seconds:

wipers set to wipe at the interval (or nearest standard setting) given by the timer interval. Reset timer and start it counting.


Or Tap stalk after an interval longer than 10 seconds :

final single wipe and then set to AUTO. Reset timer and start it counting.


This would give a very intuitive manual control: light rain, the driver will tap a couple of times with several seconds between. Heavier rain, the driver will naturally repeat the taps quicker. And the car then uses these as the wiper cadence. Reverting to AUTO just needs the driver to wait more than ten seconds before giving a final tap...or a double time spaced tap to set a new cadence.
 
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Here is an idea for manual control via the stalk:

Tap stalk:

Initiate a single wipe (as normal), but also set a timer counting.


Then either Tap stalk again within 10 seconds:

wipers set to wipe at the interval (or nearest standard setting) given by the timer interval. Reset timer and start it counting.


Or Tap stalk after an interval longer than 10 seconds :

final single wipe and then set to AUTO. Reset timer and start it counting.


This would give a very intuitive manual control: light rain, the driver will tap a couple of times with several seconds between. Heavier rain, the driver will naturally repeat the taps quicker. And the car then uses these as the wiper cadence. Reverting to AUTO just needs the driver to wait more than ten seconds before giving a final tap...or a double time spaced tap to set a new cadence.

Better idea.

While UI is up for wipers from a tap on the stalk.

Use Scroll wheels like it does for the mirrors.

Click Wheel in toggle Auto.

Scroll up down for speed.

Or something like that.

Context sensitive wheels are the best.
 
Better idea.

While UI is up for wipers from a tap on the stalk.

Use Scroll wheels like it does for the mirrors.

Click Wheel in toggle Auto.

Scroll up down for speed.

Or something like that.

Context sensitive wheels are the best.

That'd also work. I like my idea because all it needs is two (time spaced intuitively from what's needed to keep the screen clear) taps to set it going and one to cancel.
 
Auto wipe in v10 improved for me in daytime (by quite a bit), but night time drizzle + oncoming glare is still downright dangerous :mad:
 

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Was thinking of making a thread on this, guess I'll continue here now that I see it?

Auto wipers drove me nuts yesterday night. The roads were quite wet but there was no rain. Barely anything getting sprayed on the windshield, but it was wiping every 2 seconds or so. Completely overkill and ends up making the windshield actually harder to see out of because what little spray there is, is mucky and streaky.

Yesterday is also when I discovered the biggest flaw of the wipers.

When not using "beta" auto wipers, two touch screen presses are required to turn on the wipers to a given speed, not just one.

I had turned off the auto wipers since they were making things worse, but still needed to wipe every 5 minutes or so. Then it started to rain a bit and I needed to turn them back on. This required...
  • Physical - Hit the button on the stalk for a single wipe
  • Touchscreen - Press the wiper icon that pops up to turn on wipers
  • Touchscreen - Press the speed you wish (since it was previously in auto, which sometimes doesn't wipe as often as needed during active rain)
2 touchscreen actions and 3 actions overall to engage wipers at a low speed is just mental. The wiper controls almost prevented me from buying the car if not for the button on the stalk, but after that experience I'm concerned and disappointed all over again.

Touchscreen-based controls for safety-critical non-beta features is not ok.
 
Apparently some improvements on the way: Elon Musk on Twitter

"Takes a surprising amount of deep learning to know when & how fast to move the wipers."

Or, y'know, that common (Bosch?) sensor that's over a decade old that pretty much every other vehicle with auto wipers uses, including Model S/X. Worked perfectly fine, no deep learning required. Humans are fantastic at learning and developing products suited to problems they understand, which is why this was already a (much better) solved problem. Not to mention the solution of just giving the operator a quick, safe, and tactile way to adjust the speed themselves.

I hope when I look at another Tesla (or other EV) maybe 5-10 years down the road, they've smartened up about NIH syndrome and reinventing well-solved problems with poor beta replacements.

I'm sorta glad updates are coming, but I'm sorta mad that Tesla is the type of company to push not-quite-right solutions to their customers for years before it's effective enough to use safely. And that's a fair statement regarding safety, because their lack of dedicated physical control means they're wholly betting on the reliability and dependability of the auto wipers, which is still "coming soon".
 
It's laughable that automatic wipers, perfected many many years ago and now available on inexpensive automobiles, is a feature that doesn't work well on Teslas.

Some wheels don't require re-invention.

Automatic wipers were NOT perfected years ago. My 2016 Golf R didn’t have perfect wipers, and neither did my friend’s Panamera.

My neighbor just got a 2019 e-Golf and the auto wipers aren’t perfect either.
 
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Automatic wipers were NOT perfected years ago. My 2016 Golf R didn’t have perfect wipers, and neither did my friend’s Panamera.

My neighbor just got a 2019 e-Golf and the auto wipers aren’t perfect either.
Whew! Avoided that problem when I decided not to buy a Golf R. Thanks for the heads up!

The auto wipers in all four Porsches we have owned worked well. Same with our BWWs back to the 2000 5 Series.
 
Tesla has just filed for a new "deep learning" patent to enhance the performance of their cars. The entire eligible fleet will get the new system when it is released.

This OTA update thing really sets Tesla apart from the other manufacturers. They can release an imperfect system when it is available and then send updates to make it better as technology improves. FREE TOO!
 
Whew! Avoided that problem when I decided not to buy a Golf R. Thanks for the heads up!

The auto wipers in all four Porsches we have owned worked well. Same with our BWWs back to the 2000 5 Series.

Well...don’t misunderstand me. They worked well, but then again so do my Model 3 auto wipers. They just weren’t perfect. If you left your Golf outside while it rained, the windshield would be covered in rain and it wouldn’t auto wipe that away until you reached 15-20mph for the initial wipe. Crazy. So I always had to manually wipe first in that car.

My Model 3 doesn’t have that issue. The only issue I’ve noticed is the random wipes in the pitch black or in my garage, but that seems to have only started in the last update or so. Bizarre. When it’s actually raining they’ve been flawless.
 
Tesla has just filed for a new "deep learning" patent to enhance the performance of their cars. The entire eligible fleet will get the new system when it is released.

This OTA update thing really sets Tesla apart from the other manufacturers. They can release an imperfect system when it is available and then send updates to make it better as technology improves. FREE TOO!

We need to stop praising Tesla for this, same way everyone needs to stop praising game companies for shipping half-complete games that get free (or even paid, actually) updates later. It sets Tesla apart, but not necessarily in a good way 100% of the time.

Most of us bought a Tesla knowing that we're still paying early adopter pricing for EV drivetrains. Not all of us bought a Tesla knowing there were half-baked features depending on Tesla to update them in the future with a hopefully finally good solution. They're obviously struggling with things like Auto wipers (taking over 2 years now?) even though the physical design of the car relies on it being dependable.

I feel like people would praise Tesla for shipping out a defective safety-critical system just because they can update it later. Oh wait, THEY DID with the braking distance/ABS issue.. The ability to send out something of low performance is entirely too appealing to use as a crutch.

Of course, there's also regressions in behaviour. Some of it is trivial (Sentry cam corrupting files more often, Spotify locking up everything but FM radio until a reboot, etc.). Some of it has been more worrisome (e.g. the issues with emergency lane departure avoidance inappropriately triggering and sending people closer to oncoming traffic). Heck, even for the ABS issue mentioned above, it's not like people are actively monitoring that braking doesn't get worse with every update. Hopefully they are internally, but they obviously didn't have eyes on it prior to the CR report.

It's not inconceivable to think we're mere steps away from Tesla receiving massive fines and/or backlash over this modern software mentality being applied to 4000lb hunks of metal moving down the road.

Well...don’t misunderstand me. They worked well, but then again so do my Model 3 auto wipers. They just weren’t perfect. If you left your Golf outside while it rained, the windshield would be covered in rain and it wouldn’t auto wipe that away until you reached 15-20mph for the initial wipe. Crazy. So I always had to manually wipe first in that car.

My Model 3 doesn’t have that issue. The only issue I’ve noticed is the random wipes in the pitch black or in my garage, but that seems to have only started in the last update or so. Bizarre. When it’s actually raining they’ve been flawless.

I had that same issue with the Model 3. Had an even covering of water on the windshield, started going and it "rippled" so I was unable to see. In my admittedly worrisome panic, I hit the park button instead of the wipe button a couple times before I figured out what I was doing wrong (this was in the span of about 2 seconds of not being able to see going ~30mph). Auto wipers were on and did nothing.

The "phantom wipes" in the dark used to be present as well (ask those that went to drive in theaters... though good luck finding those people :) ), I think they've just gotten more prevalent now.
 
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Automatic wipers were NOT perfected years ago. My 2016 Golf R didn’t have perfect wipers, and neither did my friend’s Panamera.

My neighbor just got a 2019 e-Golf and the auto wipers aren’t perfect either.


I can't speak to VW, but my 2008 Lexus IS350 auto wipers were absolutely perfect for the 11 years we owned the car.

That said- I get Teslas thinking of "If we can do it in software even at $2 a car savings that's gonna be a couple million bucks a year saved as production ramps up"

But I think a better way might've been suck up the $2 until you get it right, and let the difference between "AI thinks it should wipe" and "Sensor we know is correct thinks it should wipe" train the AI across the fleet until the AI is just as good as the sensor.
 
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I can't speak to VW, but my 2008 Lexus IS350 auto wipers were absolutely perfect for the 11 years we owned the car.

That said- I get Teslas thinking of "If we can do it in software even at $2 a car savings that's gonna be a couple million bucks a year saved as production ramps up"

But I think a better way might've been suck up the $2 until you get it right, and let the difference between "AI thinks it should wipe" and "Sensor we know is correct thinks it should wipe" train the AI across the fleet until the AI is just as good as the sensor.

Realistically speaking it’s not $2 a car. A lot more I’d imagine.

That said, with the amount of R&D they’re putting into Deep Rain NN, maybe it would have been worth it. Then again, maybe this was the plan all along - to have smart wipers - eventually.
 
... But I think a better way might've been suck up the $2 until you get it right, and let the difference between "AI thinks it should wipe" and "Sensor we know is correct thinks it should wipe" train the AI across the fleet until the AI is just as good as the sensor.

One would have thought Tesla would have already done this - with the Model S/Xs that have the sensor.