Winter tires for Bay Area to Lake Tahoe?

[happyluckbox]

Hey guys, I'm in a bit of a dilemma and could use some help. I currently live in the bay area, but sometimes drive up to tahoe, around 8 times a year for weekend snowboarding. I dont think winter tires make a ton of sense because they will melt on the roads in the bay area and on the majority of the commute towards Tahoe. So it seems all seasons are my best bet.

I'm a spirited driver and P3D+ owner, so I'd like to minimize summer performance losses...

Currently debating between:

A. Buying a new set of cheap 18inch rims (TST?) and buying michelin crossclimate tires for nov-march. This will give me decent snow traction without sacrificing summer performance. However, I will have to switch wheels twice a year.


B. Buying a forged 18inch lightweight wheel (Titan 7) and putting on the michelin a/s3+ or the continental dws06. This would save me the headache of storing and swapping between winter/summer wheels, but I lose the benefit of having true summer tires and both of these options arent as good in snow as the crossclimate. However, I do gain the economical benefits of no bent rims and increased range due to lighter wheels year round. I can also recuperate my costs by selling the 20inch wheels.


What option in your guys opinion is more suited for my lifestyle? I may track the car once in a blue moon, but most of my fun is had tearing it up in the back roads in the summer.

 

[beastmode13]

C. Get a set of real studless winter tire/wheel. Run it late Nov to late March. It will last 5+ seasons of Tahoe runs in winter. Rest of the year, run full summer tire/wheel setup. All season is too much compromise both ways. It’s not going to get you through compacted snow or ice, you will add up on the side of the road putting on chains. In summer, it pales in comparison to max performance summer tires.

I’ve Epic season pass for the past 6-7yrs. Running two dedicated tire/wheels is the way to go.

 

[happyluckbox]

C. Get a set of real studless winter tire/wheel. Run it late Nov to late March. It will last 5+ seasons of Tahoe runs in winter. Rest of the year, run full summer tire/wheel setup. All season is too much compromise both ways. It’s not going to get you through compacted snow or ice, you will add up on the side of the road putting on chains. In summer, it pales in comparison to max performance summer tires.

I’ve Epic season pass for the past 6-7yrs. Running two dedicated tire/wheels is the way to go.

That is actually what I used to run on my Evo, a set of dunlop wintersport 3ds that i'd swap on during winter. Unfortunately, I found that they wore quite poorly in a 2-3 year time frame. I thought that was due to the constant driving in 60-70 degree temperature back home. (I live in san jose) But perhaps it was because of other factors...


I could give it another go with studless winters. Is there a brand of tire you would suggest? I got the dunlops because they were "performance" winters, which I thought would hold up better in the dry.

 

[dmd2005]

Get a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 tires. They don’t feel like a winter tire at all and was originally manufactured for Porsche. I’m running PA4 for my first time this season and they don’t compromise much in dry conditions compared to my previous Nokian R3 tires that felt soft and cushy. The PA4 also come with a 30000 mile warranty that very few winter tires provide.

 

[essaunders]

don't forget you need to carry chains, even if you have AWD (assuming you have all seasons or snows too)...

 

[beastmode13]

don't forget you need to carry chains, even if you have AWD (assuming you have all seasons or snows too)...

If you have studless or studded snow tires with the Mountain Snowflake symbol on the sidewall, you don't need chains. I have passed chain control checkpoint on 50, 80 and 88 to Tahoe, and on 5 in Oregan, Washington and British Columbia. Regulation might be different in your parts of the world.

Modern studless snow tires like Michelin X-Ice3 or Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 are amazing. Just last winter, I was at Heavenly for ski week with over 30" of snow in 48hrs. In my BMW X5 with 4yr old Michelin X-Ice2, I was able to go up and down hills with packed snow/ice without any problems while snowplow with full chains was slipping a bit. Chains don't cover 100% of the tire surface; there are patches where chains aren't in contact with the road, whereas snow tire has unique compounds and slips designs that cover 100% of the contact area with the road.

There are situations like deep snow, where chains are much better than any snow tires. However, those could be avoided by staying on roads that are more frequently traveled or plowed.

Exact wording from Caltran website - "CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS"

 

[webbah]

Get a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 tires. They don’t feel like a winter tire at all and was originally manufactured for Porsche. I’m running PA4 for my first time this season and they don’t compromise much in dry conditions compared to my previous Nokian R3 tires that felt soft and cushy. The PA4 also come with a 30000 mile warranty that very few winter tires provide.

^^^. This. ^^^. I live in Switzerland and run the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4s during winter. They are excellent! Not too noisy and handle almost as good as summer tires for performance. And I never have any issues in snow/ice in the alps here. At home I’m at a lower elevation of 300 meters where it doesn’t snow but rains a bit. No issues at all in the rain either.

I am very pleased with these tires!

 

[happyluckbox]

If you have studless or studded snow tires with the Mountain Snowflake symbol on the sidewall, you don't need chains. I have passed chain control checkpoint on 50, 80 and 88 to Tahoe, and on 5 in Oregan, Washington and British Columbia. Regulation might be different in your parts of the world.

Modern studless snow tires like Michelin X-Ice3 or Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 are amazing. Just last winter, I was at Heavenly for ski week with over 30" of snow in 48hrs. In my BMW X5 with 4yr old Michelin X-Ice2, I was able to go up and down hills with packed snow/ice without any problems while snowplow with full chains was slipping a bit. Chains don't cover 100% of the tire surface; there are patches where chains aren't in contact with the road, whereas snow tire has unique compounds and slips designs that cover 100% of the contact area with the road.

There are situations like deep snow, where chains are much better than any snow tires. However, those could be avoided by staying on roads that are more frequently traveled or plowed.

Exact wording from Caltran website - "CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS"


View attachment 484642

You found the michelin xice to be ok driving in ~70 temps without premature wear?

id love to go with a full winter tire option to maximize my traction in tahoe, but given that most of my commute is in hot and sunny (usually) san jose, im concerned the tires wont last more than 2 seasons.


Hence why im debating the crossclimate+ which have the 3pmsf symbol and are an all season.

 

[Incredulocious]

Hey guys, I'm in a bit of a dilemma and could use some help. I currently live in the bay area, but sometimes drive up to tahoe, around 8 times a year for weekend snowboarding. I dont think winter tires make a ton of sense because they will melt on the roads in the bay area and on the majority of the commute towards Tahoe. So it seems all seasons are my best bet.

I'm a spirited driver and P3D+ owner, so I'd like to minimize summer performance losses...

What option in your guys opinion is more suited for my lifestyle? I may track the car once in a blue moon, but most of my fun is had tearing it up in the back roads in the summer.

I’m waiting right this moment for a set of Crossclimate+’s to be installed on my “stealth” Performance Model 3, as I also spend a lot of time in Tahoe but live in the bay area (Santa Cruz). My understanding is that proper snow/winter tires aren’t appropriate for our mild winter weather (50-60’s) and it looks like the Crossclimate+’s will do much better in the snow than the MXM4’s that the car came with. However, it also would be helpful if Tesla would implement a “snow mode” for the AWD system that made better use of the front motor so that we don’t so easily get the rear end slipping out – as discussed in multiple other threads and as I was disappointed to experience frequently last season. As for summer performance, that’s not something I’m concerned about but I would think you would want to switch out to summer tires if that’s your thing,

 

[coleAK]

If you have studless or studded snow tires with the Mountain Snowflake symbol on the sidewall, you don't need chains. I have passed chain control checkpoint on 50, 80 and 88 to Tahoe, and on 5 in Oregan, Washington and British Columbia. Regulation might be different in your parts of the world.

Modern studless snow tires like Michelin X-Ice3 or Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 are amazing. Just last winter, I was at Heavenly for ski week with over 30" of snow in 48hrs. In my BMW X5 with 4yr old Michelin X-Ice2, I was able to go up and down hills with packed snow/ice without any problems while snowplow with full chains was slipping a bit. Chains don't cover 100% of the tire surface; there are patches where chains aren't in contact with the road, whereas snow tire has unique compounds and slips designs that cover 100% of the contact area with the road.

There are situations like deep snow, where chains are much better than any snow tires. However, those could be avoided by staying on roads that are more frequently traveled or plowed.

Exact wording from Caltran website - "CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS"


View attachment 484642

You still have to carry chains. And CA DOT will ask to see them for time to time.

 

[coleAK]

I grew up in Tahoe, spent 25 years there. If you run a full studless winter in the Bay Area and therefor spend most of the winter on dry roads plan on 1-2 winters a set. In your scenario I would run a good all weather like the PA4s or Nokian WRG4 and swap to summers in the summer. When I was in undergrad in the East bay and dove home to Tahoe every weekend that’s what I did.

 

[KenC]

Option A, with the CrossClimate+. You get a snow-rated tire, that will allow you to drive in the Bay Area without destroying them.

 

[Lunares]

If you have studless or studded snow tires with the Mountain Snowflake symbol on the sidewall, you don't need chains. I have passed chain control checkpoint on 50, 80 and 88 to Tahoe, and on 5 in Oregan, Washington and British Columbia. Regulation might be different in your parts of the world.

Modern studless snow tires like Michelin X-Ice3 or Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 are amazing. Just last winter, I was at Heavenly for ski week with over 30" of snow in 48hrs. In my BMW X5 with 4yr old Michelin X-Ice2, I was able to go up and down hills with packed snow/ice without any problems while snowplow with full chains was slipping a bit. Chains don't cover 100% of the tire surface; there are patches where chains aren't in contact with the road, whereas snow tire has unique compounds and slips designs that cover 100% of the contact area with the road.

There are situations like deep snow, where chains are much better than any snow tires. However, those could be avoided by staying on roads that are more frequently traveled or plowed.

Exact wording from Caltran website - "CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS"


View attachment 484642

I have driven around on Crossclimate+ in Tahoe as well, had zero problems in several strong storms. Only time I ever got stuck was doing donut's in Squaw parking lot where I bottomed the car out due to the 4+ feet of unplowed snow (took about a minute to get unstuck, was perfectly fine otherwise!)

Definitely don't think the trade to the R3 or Ice3 is worth the extra wear in california heat. you do of course get even better snow performance.

You still have to carry chains. And CA DOT will ask to see them for time to time.

California has R1, R2 and R3 chain control. Pretty much only Mammoth ever goes to R3 (chains required by everyone). I have never heard of CA DOT not letting you pass without chains if you have AWD + 3 peak snowflake symbol tires.

 

[Wannabeskibum]

I am a huge fan of two complete sets, but I would be hesitant if I was you. In March when I am driving across the plains and the temp spikes into the 40's and 50's the tires become squirmy. The one time I was in 70 degree heat it felt like I was riding on mashed potatoes. Driving at night helps with this some.

Ironically while I was putting on my winter tires I was wondering what avid skiers/snowboarders in CA do. I assumed chains which are basically non existent in the Midwest.*

*Not because people in the Midwest are smart and have winter tires, because "Don't need em, I have a 4wd truck"

 

[coleAK]

I have driven around on Crossclimate+ in Tahoe as well, had zero problems in several strong storms. Only time I ever got stuck was doing donut's in Squaw parking lot where I bottomed the car out due to the 4+ feet of unplowed snow (took about a minute to get unstuck, was perfectly fine otherwise!)

Definitely don't think the trade to the R3 or Ice3 is worth the extra wear in california heat. you do of course get even better snow performance.



California has R1, R2 and R3 chain control. Pretty much only Mammoth ever goes to R3 (chains required by everyone). I have never heard of CA DOT not letting you pass without chains if you have AWD + 3 peak snowflake symbol tires.

I was born and raised in Tahoe, and ran studded winter tires in the winter on a AWD or 4wd. And once or twice a season had someone ask to see my chains. The Truckee chief of police was a good friend and he always said if you are in controls and don’t have the requirements you are liable for any accident you are involved in. I left for good in 2001 but just checked the CADOT:

• Requirement 1 (R-1): Chains are required on all vehicles except passenger vehicles and light-duty trucks under 6,000 pounds gross weight and equipped with snow tires1 on at least two drive wheels. Chains must be carried by vehicles using snow tires. All vehicles towing trailers must have chains on one drive axle. Trailers with brakes must have chains on at least one axle.
• Requirement 2 (R2): Chains or traction devices2 are required on all vehicles except four wheel/ all wheel drive vehicles with snow-tread tires on all four wheels.
  NOTE: (Four wheel/all wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas.
• Chain Controls / Chain Installation | Caltrans

And also I have seen R3 over all 3 passes in south lake as well as Donner.