Would you buy a "higher end" Model 3?

[WilliamG]

Properly adjustable seats (including thigh support)?
Air conditioned seats?
heated steering wheel?
Heated wiper jets (honestly pathetic that these aren’t already there)?
*dramatically* quieter cabin?

give me those things and I’ll go upgrade. As it is now I was planning on getting a Model Y in another year or so but without those features I don’t know if I will.

But this proves that we all have very different needs. Personally:

1.) Couldn't care about a heated steering wheel. If it's cold out I'm always pre-heating the car, anyway, so the wheel is nice and warm when I get in.

2.) Air conditioned seats: Yes. I'd take this in a heartbeat.

3.) Heated wiper jets? Can't say I've ever given this a moment's thought, even when I was living in Minnesota.

4.) Dramatically-quieter cabin? I think this is sort-of like the wipers issue for some people. For me, the wipers haven't given me any trouble, and neither has cabin noise. I'm sure there's a variance between build dates, of course, but my cabin is plenty quiet at 70mph compared to other cars I've been in.

 

[tvad]

Trade offs are a part of life, and human nature is to always want more. If the model 3 already had BMW finish (which is last compared to Audi and MB, btw) and Tesla performance, you’d then want it to have a Porsche level interior.

That’s a strawman argument.

From the outset of the Model 3, Tesla was positioning it against the BMW 3 Series, and motoring magazines followed Tesla’s lead with copious comparison reviews between those two autos.

Folks are simply asking for a Model 3 that has the same quality of materials, fit and finish as the car it targeted.

 

[DrtyJrze]

That’s a strawman argument.

From the outset of the Model 3, Tesla was positioning it against the BMW 3 Series, and motoring magazines followed Tesla’s lead with copious comparison reviews between two autos.

Folks are simply asking for a Model 3 that has the same quality of materials, fit and finish as the car it targeted.

Is BMW expected to provide the same performance, driver user interface, and OTA software/tech updates as Tesla? Would people be happy if Tesla matched BMW material, fit, and finish, but did not provide the performance, UI, and tech? They would be out of business already, lol. Again, it’s a trade off.

Audi’s compete with BMW as well. They don’t provide the same driving experience, but have more gadgets and better interiors. MB also competes with BMW, but they focus on creature comforts and smooth riding.

They all are compared to each other, but focus on different parts of the driving experience, so I’m not sure what your point is.

 

[tvad]

Trade offs are a part of life, and human nature is to always want more. If the model 3 already had BMW finish (which is last compared to Audi and MB, btw) and Tesla performance, you’d then want it to have a Porsche level interior. If it had that you want it all for $30k cheaper, etc.

The “what if/I wish” game is one I don’t enjoy playing, because it’s impossible to win. My philosophy is to take something as it is and if it evolves great! If not, find something that fits my needs the best at the time of purchase.

Trying to build the “perfect” Frankenstein car (Audi interior, Tesla drivetrain, Porsche driving dynamics, etc.) is a unicorn that has been chased forever and will never be caught. A car can’t be made that is everything to everybody.

Great topic for forum discussions/entertainment. But pointless for real life. All manufacturers know their target demographic and for the most part stick to catering to them.

Is BMW expected to provide the same performance, driver user interface, and OTA software/tech updates as Tesla?

Audi’s compete with BMW as well. They don’t provide the same driving experience, but have more gadgets and better interiors. MB also competes with BMW, but they focus on creature comforts and smooth riding.

They all are compared to each other, but focus on different parts of the driving experience, so I’m not sure what your point is.

I suggest re-reading my post paying particular attention to the last sentence. My point is clear.

 

[DrtyJrze]

People on here REALLY love the disagree button, lol.

I suggest you go buy a BMW if fit and finish are that important to you.

 

[tvad]

I suggest you go buy a BMW if fit and finish are that important to you.

Noted.

 

[run-the-joules]

But this proves that we all have very different needs. Personally:

1.) Couldn't care about a heated steering wheel. If it's cold out I'm always pre-heating the car, anyway, so the wheel is nice and warm when I get in.

I don't want an air-temperature wheel. I want one that is actively warming my hands. I didn't realize how nice it was until I drove a car with one.

2.) Air conditioned seats: Yes. I'd take this in a heartbeat.

Think of this in the same way as the heated wheel It's actively regulating the temp of the adjacent surface, and sure is nice

3.) Heated wiper jets? Can't say I've ever given this a moment's thought, even when I was living in Minnesota.

Also used to live in Minnesota, 20 years ago. Never had a problem since my $20k VW had heated jets. My $65k Tesla OTOH couldn't clean my windshield in Nevada last month, though, because the jets were frozen solid.

4.) Dramatically-quieter cabin? I think this is sort-of like the wipers issue for some people. For me, the wipers haven't given me any trouble, and neither has cabin noise. I'm sure there's a variance between build dates, of course, but my cabin is plenty quiet at 70mph compared to other cars I've been in.

Yeah, I've had my model 3 for 2 years now. It wasn't quiet compared to the hardtop convertible I replaced with it, and isn't quiet compared to anything else in the price range I've driven since.

 

[afadeev]

I don’t think your BMW is as quiet as you think.

I have a top of the line custom F80 M3. If you turn off the music and listen it’s loud. Most of the wind/road noise gets drowned out by the “engine”. In the Tesla, there’s no ICE sound, so the wind noise seems louder.

That's only half right.

I also have an F80 M3 (much more fun car to drive fast, BTW), and the S55 engine noise is definitely more noticeable than that of the electric models. Duah.
However, you are significantly under-reporting the wind noise that penetrates Model 3 cabin. I don't know if that's due to glass gaps in the roof, or the nature of the glass roof itself, but Model 3 is appreciably nosier at 75+ MPH speeds than the ///M3.

Driving Model 3 at 85+ MPH is downright unpleasant and tiring, and north of 100 MPH the noise is howling. The ///M3 does not seam to suffer from significant wind-noise intrusion even north of 130+ MPH.
These observations are statistically significant for both vehicles.

To answer your original question, I wouldn’t pay more for a luxury model 3. I actually think the seats are too soft and would prefer the more fitting seats in my BMW M3 to keep me in place during spirited driving. Obviously coming from an M3 I lean more towards the performance end of the spectrum. I would pay more for those type of improvements.

Totally agree with you here.
I WOULD actually pay more $$$$ for better form-fitting, better bolstered, and more supportive leather seats in Model 3 (Tesla should rip-off BMW M-series or Porsche 911/718 seats), leather steering wheel, plus a HUD with an option to turn the big center screen OFF at night.

Tesla's plastic-fantastic fixation with seat/steering wheel surfaces, is misplaced.
Calling plastic "vegan weather" doesn't help things one bit. It's pure BS.

A $65K BMW 3-Series has the same interior as the base $40K BMW 3-Series [...] My point being, if you compare cars within the same "series", from any manufacturer, you're going to get the same basic quality from the base model all the way up to the performance trim. Same with Tesla, so they're not doing anything different from BMW here.

My first-hand experience with BMW trim levels is the opposite of yours.
Entry level 3-series interior is a world apart from ///M3's interior, except for the general shape of the dash, and the steering wheel stalks. Materials are different (leather vs. plastic), seats shape/support/comfort levels are different, steering wheels are different (leather vs. plastic again). Just about every surface area your body touches is of materially higher quality in an ///M3 than an 320/330i.

My observations are based on ownership of E30, E36, E46, E90, F80 cars (mostly ///M's), and the free loaners I've been getting for the duration of service appointments.

I do agree with your conclusion - Tesla is highly unlikely to offer additional interior trim variability, as they are having a hard time managing the supply chain and manufacturing complexity as-is.

 

[Dan203]

Trade offs are a part of life, and human nature is to always want more. If the model 3 already had BMW finish (which is last compared to Audi and MB, btw) and Tesla performance, you’d then want it to have a Porsche level interior. If it had that you want it all for $30k cheaper, etc.

The “what if/I wish” game is one I don’t enjoy playing, because it’s impossible to win. My philosophy is to take something as it is and if it evolves great! If not, find something that fits my needs the best at the time of purchase.

Trying to build the “perfect” Frankenstein car (Audi interior, Tesla drivetrain, Porsche driving dynamics, etc.) is a unicorn that has been chased forever and will never be caught. A car can’t be made that is everything to everybody.

Great topic for forum discussions/entertainment. But pointless for real life. All manufacturers know their target demographic and for the most part stick to catering to them.

I think the biggest difference is that with ICE cars you actually have competition. If your BMW is too loud or uncomfortable you can buy an Audi or Lexus instead. But the only real option currently when considering an EV is Tesla. So we need Tesla to have more options so we can customize the car the way we like it.

None of the other EVs on the market seem serious. Except maybe the Bolt, but that's aimed more at the budget segment. No other company currently makes a compelling luxury EV that fills that 3 series, C class, type space. And the couple that are available like the Etron or Pollstar have either sh*tty range or much worse performance.

Tesla has had a huge head start in this race and it shows. The luxury in the S is nice, and I could technically afford one, but like I mentioned above I drove one and it just felt big. I like the smaller size and more stiff handling of the 3 Performance. I'm not one who cares about the stiffer ride. I just want a true luxury sports sedan. The Model 3 Performance has the speed and handling I want, but the luxury part is a bit lacking. Especially the cabin noise, it's significantly louder than my BMW. And it's not just because there is not engine noise and you notice it more. Even with the engine, at highway speeds, the BMW was quieter. It's significantly harder to talk to people in the backseat when driving at highway speeds in the Model 3 Performance,

 

[Tummy]

I sometimes have to remind myself that Tesla is not an European or Japanese luxury brand. They don’t have 100 years of experience and are doing something never done before. I focus on the strengths and try to enjoy the cars for what they are. When something ‘better” comes out, I will buy it, but overall our Teslas have been better than all my previous cars and I have had many.

 

[roblab]

Would I buy a more luxurious 3? Yup. I did. I don't remember the saying, but it was something like, "The bad taste of poor product lasts far longer than the good feeling of low price." So I try to buy a couple notches up the scale. Never been sorry.

 

[Someguy4747]

No, I don’t think that I would. A lot of Model 3 buyers were not previously spending 40-55k on a vehicle, and I think they would either choose not to purchase a more expensive option or simply be priced out of a Model 3 altogether (assuming the base price increased). I spent 14k more than my last vehicle (loaded Subaru Forester vs LR AWD Model 3), but if the purchase price was much higher, I’m not sure I could have justified it.

That being said, I have no regrets and personally feel like I got a ton of value in the overall vehicle compared to something like a BMW 3 series in terms of both performance and luxury. I think the Model 3 definitely has a performance edge at all price points compared to any similarly priced 3 series, and I personally value the performance a bit more than the luxury.

All that being said, I think people would buy nicer trims of the Performance Model 3’s as most of these buyers seemed to have previously been in a market for a 60k+ vehicle and don’t mind spending the money and they miss the previous luxury features/ interior quality. I think these buyers would also prefer a more differentiating look compared to the 40k standard range + model 3.

 

[run-the-joules]

I WOULD actually pay more $$$$ for better form-fitting, better bolstered, and more supportive leather seats in Model 3 (Tesla should rip-off BMW M-series or Porsche 911/718 seats)

I'd be ok with them ripping off just about any modern sport-lux seat with adjustable thigh support, tbh.

 

[hmmwv]

Coming from a Leaf here is a list of things missing from my 2020 SR+, yeah I know some I can get if I upgrade to a higher trim, but just wish some are simple options to choose from instead of a full trim upgrade.
1. 360 degree camera - want
2. Heat pump - want
3. Standard Homelink
4. Heated steering wheel - want
5. Heated rear seats
6. Premium sound system with amp and subwoofer - want
7. AM/XM/Sirius radio
8. Rear cargo hooks
9. Standard fix a flat kit
10. Fog lights - want
11. Floormats
12. Solar panel for small accessories

 

[SigNC]

I'd pay more for nicer seats that are vented. I get that tesla makes their own seats but I think they could be much improved.

 

[Someguy4747]

For all the people asking about Sirius/XM have you tried Spotify? I had Sirius/XM and found the sound quality to be poor and the commercials annoying (it’s a paid service after all). Plus when you go to cancel they give you so much grief.

Spotify sound quality is much better imo and their playlists are great and only get better as you provide feedback to what you like and don’t like. Also, there are no commercials ever. They have a pretty good selection of podcasts now too.

Admittedly my experience with Sirius/XM was about a decade ago, but as someone that has used both services, Spotify seems like a much better option. Maybe there is something I’m missing?

 

[SouthSeas]

People on here REALLY love the disagree button, lol.

I suggest you go buy a BMW if fit and finish are that important to you.

That is a very interesting reply. "We don't care about those things and we don't want to improve it. This is a Tesla, love it or leave it!"

 

[flyingowl]

People on here REALLY love the disagree button, lol.

I suggest you go buy a BMW if fit and finish are that important to you.

but BMW doesn't include turn signals as standard which I need them.

 

[SouthSeas]

But this proves that we all have very different needs. Personally:

1.) Couldn't care about a heated steering wheel. If it's cold out I'm always pre-heating the car, anyway, so the wheel is nice and warm when I get in.

I don't know where you live, but the heated steering wheel is one of the best parts of my X. That and the air conditioned seats. Hmmmm... Even if you preheat, that's not always practical. Also, when people buy cars like this with the idea of reducing carbon emissions, they feel they can then burn as much electricity as they want for creature comforts. That is counter productive.

2.) Air conditioned seats: Yes. I'd take this in a heartbeat.

3.) Heated wiper jets? Can't say I've ever given this a moment's thought, even when I was living in Minnesota.

4.) Dramatically-quieter cabin? I think this is sort-of like the wipers issue for some people. For me, the wipers haven't given me any trouble, and neither has cabin noise. I'm sure there's a variance between build dates, of course, but my cabin is plenty quiet at 70mph compared to other cars I've been in.

I noticed one big difference with my other vehicles, the car is very sensitive to road noise from the tires. There are pavings that are much noisier than others and it seems Tesla doesn't have as much sound proofing to keep it outside. I recall hitting stretches of road that made me want to get off the highway they were so loud. I've never had that problem with other vehicles and it's not because they are noisier to start with. While they may be somewhat noisier normally, they are quieter on those sections of highway.

 

[SouthSeas]

I'd be ok with them ripping off just about any modern sport-lux seat with adjustable thigh support, tbh.

The problem with a lot of those seats is they don't fit larger people so much. I'm 6'1" and my X seats are hugging my shoulders from behind. That pushes them forward and rounds my back, both of which are wrong/bad posture. While this does help to hug you in those 1 g turns, I don't need that very often actually. What I do need is a seat that doesn't give me scoliosis.