Would you consider a Bolt?

[EVie'sDad]

after what GM did to the owners of the EV1, never.

 

[Gremlin]

No. Where is the charging infrastructure? If you don't intend on doing road trips, strictly a commuter car, or plan to stay within state (i.e., not bigger than VA) and can reach the destination one 1 charge and charge over night at hotel or friends -maybe.

For my use, I'm not going to be placed on a 90 min drive lease limit or wait 7 hours before I can use the car unless car is charging while I'm asleep.

 

[MSullivan]

after what GM did to the owners of the EV1, never.

That would not happen again. You couldn't buy an EV1 so you didn't own it. GM isn't coming to take a Bolt away from a person holding the title.

 

[SmartElectric]

That would not happen again. You couldn't buy an EV1 so you didn't own it. GM isn't coming to take a Bolt away from a person holding the title.

Those of us who desperately wanted an electric car back then suffered a decade of delay due to the actions of GM, and the other major auto makers. We have long memories...

When the Smart ED came to Canada, it was one of very few available EV's, and instead of leasing it and taking the chance that no other EV's would follow, I bought it outright, so no one could take this brilliant little car away from me!

It wasn't at all certain that other auto makers would make progress, and if Tesla hadn't hit a home run with the Model S, at least I would have my Smart ED!

 

[Citizen]

I have owned a couple of GM cars and like them but i wouldn't spend the money that they are asking for the Bolt. to me the styling has to match the price point and so far i just don't see that.

 

[McRat]

It's funny how people are not aware of how the prototype market works. MOST programs are crushed when complete. Chrysler, Honda, Ford, BMW, Toyota, and GM all crushed cars that I know of:

Chrysler crushed the Turbine cars in the 1960's.
Honda crushed the 1997-1999 EV Plus cars.
Ford crushed the Rangers EVs 1998-2002 (battery life of 25,000 miles, lots of problems, and range of 65 miles sort of doomed them anyhow)
BMW ActiveE's are being crushed as we speak. Protests had some go to rideshare orgs, but they are targeted for destruction too.
Toyota was crushing RAV4 EV's until protests stopped them.

The company that actually tried to make a viable car by pulling out all the price stops, gets slammed.

The rest of the industry deliberately makes crap to prove to the government they are crap and everybody praises them.

 

[neroden]

Long story short, I'm not holding my breath in expecting charging network operators to install stations on interstate routes in the middle of nowhere (for example a route from LA to NY) on their own dime.

You're probably right. And this is a massive, massive competiive advantage for Tesla versus the car companies who don't have fast charging for road trips.

 

[neroden]

Those maps are so 2015... If you compare today's online PlugShare CCS map to that old CCS map from that October 2015 article based on the most recent previous quarterly database snapshot from PlugShare you will see a lot of new CCS sites added since then.

Nothing in the whole of central and western NY.

Frankly, CCS and Chademo are unusable for road trips. This might change eventually but I'm seeing no signs of it.

Tesla Superchargers are usable for road trips.

 

[neroden]

Unfortunately, the proof is in the pudding.

For reference, the original phrase is "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

 

[ChadS]

It's funny how people are not aware of how the prototype market works. MOST programs are crushed when complete. Chrysler, Honda, Ford, BMW, Toyota, and GM all crushed cars that I know of:

Chrysler crushed the Turbine cars in the 1960's.
Honda crushed the 1997-1999 EV Plus cars.
Ford crushed the Rangers EVs 1998-2002 (battery life of 25,000 miles, lots of problems, and range of 65 miles sort of doomed them anyhow)
BMW ActiveE's are being crushed as we speak. Protests had some go to rideshare orgs, but they are targeted for destruction too.
Toyota was crushing RAV4 EV's until protests stopped them.

The company that actually tried to make a viable car by pulling out all the price stops, gets slammed.

The rest of the industry deliberately makes crap to prove to the government they are crap and everybody praises them.

I agree many are not familiar with what other companies have done and are doing, and GM gets blamed more than they should for this particular incident. It is also quite true that GM produced the best car of that era, and are producing some of the best PEVs now (though they could still do a better job of marketing them and training dealers).

However, your examples are not equivalent:

Chrysler only loaned out the Turbines; they never sold/leased them. The Turbine was a prototype; the EV-1 was not.
Honda, unlike GM, advised owners that the leases were closed-end.
Ford sold a lot of Rangers that are still out there and doing well.
BMW, unlike GM, advised owners that leases were closed-end and that the cars would be crushed.
Toyota...well, actually they are STILL calling some of the 1st-gen RAV4s back from lease and crushing them, despite what they agreed to after the protests. But nobody seems to care now that other cars are available.

GM did not advise customers that they would not re-lease vehicles. When they forced the cars back from lease, they promised they would not crush them. Then, they crushed them. This was clearly worse than most of your other examples, perhaps aside from Toyota. However, the fact that GM got caught doing it on camera is probably the unfortunate reason why they get most of the blame. It was long enough ago that most of the same people probably aren't working there, and they are technically a different company after the bankruptcy, and they are producing some really good cars now. Although their actions were indeed problematic, I could buy a GM now despite the old crushing issue. Other more recent GM activities (like trying to pass laws to keep Tesla from selling cars) are more bothersome to me; but that's covered in another thread.

 

[stopcrazypp]

GM did not advise customers that they would not re-lease vehicles. When they forced the cars back from lease, they promised they would not crush them. Then, they crushed them. This was clearly worse than most of your other examples, perhaps aside from Toyota. However, the fact that GM got caught doing it on camera is probably the unfortunate reason why they get most of the blame.

I think this was the biggest factor. GM told people very late in the game that the cars would not be crushed. Then they went ahead and crushed them anyways. That's how they pissed off so many people. The other factor included GM selling the nimh patents to Chevron (of all companies they can sell to) and also lobbying/suing to end the CARB ZEV mandate (along with Chrysler).

Make no mistake, there were people pissed off about the crushing of the other EVs (except perhaps the ActiveE example, where BMW made it completely clear from beginning of the lease that it would be crushed), but I think for all the other examples, they had hybrids to placate them (Honda had the Insight/Civic, Toyota the Prius, Ford the Escape). GM had essentially nothing (except the 2-mode hybrids in trucks/SUVs which did not match the car type of EV1 buyers).

 

[RDoc]

IMHO the Bolt was whupped with an ugly stick! Also, the lack of any long range charging infrastructure makes it pretty marginal as a vehicle.

 

[Jeff N]

Remember this photo:

Small interior or big passenger?

Here's a video from a few weeks ago of a Bolt EV production model prototype showing the backseat room:

 

[SΞXY P100D]

Remember this photo:

View attachment 179736

Small interior or big passenger?

Here's a video from a few weeks ago of a Bolt EV production model prototype showing the backseat room:

*yawn* same old boring design... nothing new here and nothing on the Model 3.

 

[nexsuperne101]

Why do you need backseat room in a Bolt? It's not like with a car like that you will find yourself getting intimate with a gorgeous lady. Try a Tesla if you really want back seat action.