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Would you pay $90-100K for a Plaid Model 3?

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lol.

You're in the slow 3, using the slow mode, with the cheapest price, this thread was never something that would interest you.

And a faster 3 would be the best driving vehicle Tesla makes. Till roadster2 comes out.

Fair enough. It wouldn’t be for me. However, it is an interesting idea, so I’ll step out of my slow-driving cheapskate perspective and give a different take.

I do agree that a “plaid” M3 would be incredible to drive. The question is, would Tesla want to make that car? The people who want that type of experience are either getting a Model S or “settling” for a performance 3. I think they would be mostly cannibalizing sales they would have gotten anyway.

But, let’s say they do want to do this. You can’t just use the existing M3 battery. The range would be trash. And I imagine you wouldn’t keep the same interior that us plebs are used to (I believe the plaid S has interior differences?).

After all of those upgrades, a “standard range roadster”, priced at say, $150K might make more sense than a plaid M3, which IMO, would kinda muddy the whole idea behind the M3...a car made by a “luxury brand” that is affordable for people who might not buy a luxury brand otherwise.

Just my $0.02.
 
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Tesla would keep the same interior. They aren't good at changing the assembly line without incurring cost. That's why they dropped the idea of the cheaper cloth interior on the base 3, it would have cost them more to have two interiors.
 
Fair enough. It wouldn’t be for me. However, it is an interesting idea, so I’ll step out of my slow-driving cheapskate perspective and give a different take.

I do agree that a “plaid” M3 would be incredible to drive. The question is, would Tesla want to make that car? The people who want that type of experience are either getting a Model S or “settling” for a performance 3. I think they would be mostly cannibalizing sales they would have gotten anyway.

But, let’s say they do want to do this. You can’t just use the existing M3 battery. The range would be trash. And I imagine you wouldn’t keep the same interior that us plebs are used to (I believe the plaid S has interior differences?).

After all of those upgrades, a “standard range roadster”, priced at say, $150K might make more sense than a plaid M3, which IMO, would kinda muddy the whole idea behind the M3...a car made by a “luxury brand” that is affordable for people who might not buy a luxury brand otherwise.

Just my $0.02.

speed has little to do with range on EVs. The EPA test is done similarly for all specs of car and if the battery is the same and the motors are efficient, they should yield the same range. A Performance and LR AWD have the same range with the same tire package. The current 75kwh battery in the Model 3 can’t output enough to make it Plaid. They would probably have to go 4680 cells for that. They would sell far more Plaid 3s at $75-80k than a Plaid model S for sure. It would be an M3, AMG destroyer.
 
100% in for a Model 3 Plaid+
  • 0-60 in 2.3 seconds
  • 450-500mi range
  • $75k-80k
I'd buy that. Tomorrow.

Throw in a magnetorheological (or however it is spelled) adjustable suspension for another $7k, and it would be a "shut up and take my money" situation.

Edit: @GreenHokie I think this was a great idea for a discussion thread, thanks for posting it.

A bit off topic, but a baby roadster would be hard to pass up, too. Think of a Mazda RX-7 or Miata, only electric. Similar performance to a Model 3 Performance. That would just be too much fun to pass up.
 
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speed has little to do with range on EVs. The EPA test is done similarly for all specs of car and if the battery is the same and the motors are efficient, they should yield the same range. A Performance and LR AWD have the same range with the same tire package. The current 75kwh battery in the Model 3 can’t output enough to make it Plaid. They would probably have to go 4680 cells for that. They would sell far more Plaid 3s at $75-80k than a Plaid model S for sure. It would be an M3, AMG destroyer.

Speed does not, but acceleration does. If you’re making a quicker car (which I thought was the main point of plaid), you’re going to sacrifice range if you keep the battery the same.

And I agree you’d sell more Plaid M3s @75-80. No question. The question is would Tesla even make money doing that. They’d have to figure out how to get that battery into a smaller car and sell it for not much more than a performance 3.

I would think realistically, we’re probably looking at a $100K car. That just doesn’t seem like a model 3 to me at that point.
 
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I think they should keep the 3 away from 6 figures, by as much as possible. 70k + autopilot (or a subscription) and some choice options, seems like a better target to me.

100% in for a Model 3 Plaid+
  • 0-60 in 2.3 seconds
  • 450-500mi range
  • $75k-80k
I'd be comfortable with something around these specs, depending on options.

However, I'd be willing to sacrifice some straight-line performance (2.5-2.7sec.) and range (~400+mi), if they could reduce weight and offer some optional course-capable gear (at least brakes, suspension and cooling). Those who lean for more range and less track focus could get a 3 Plaid.

I feel like outright speed will always belong to the S, so the 3 should differentiate itself as the most nimble car in the roster. It would also help to "protect" S Plaid sales.
 
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Fair enough. It wouldn’t be for me. However, it is an interesting idea, so I’ll step out of my slow-driving cheapskate perspective and give a different take.

I do agree that a “plaid” M3 would be incredible to drive. The question is, would Tesla want to make that car? The people who want that type of experience are either getting a Model S or “settling” for a performance 3. I think they would be mostly cannibalizing sales they would have gotten anyway.

But, let’s say they do want to do this. You can’t just use the existing M3 battery. The range would be trash. And I imagine you wouldn’t keep the same interior that us plebs are used to (I believe the plaid S has interior differences?).

After all of those upgrades, a “standard range roadster”, priced at say, $150K might make more sense than a plaid M3, which IMO, would kinda muddy the whole idea behind the M3...a car made by a “luxury brand” that is affordable for people who might not buy a luxury brand otherwise.

Just my $0.02.

I understand this take, but disagree with the last sentence you said (that this would muddy the waters on the whole idea behind the model 3). Note, this is just conversation, and not ment to be argumentative etc (lol). Now with the qualifiers out of the way...

Almost every "mass market luxury brand" has a wide range of performance available in their "main" money making vehicle. By "mass market luxury" I am counting BMW / Mercedes / Audi / Lexus. There are others, of course, and its not just pricepoint (Ford, for example, makes vehicles for regular people that are well north of 50k, but most people would not consider Ford a Luxury brand, mass market or otherwise).

Anyway, take BMW, and their "bread and butter" car, the 3 series. They make that from a 320, that sometimes gets used as a cheap taxi vehicle in germany (my understanding anyway) all the way up to the M3 (the "real" M3.. we drive model 3s.../e ducks lol). In the US, a BMW 3 series (330) has a starting MSRP of 41k (a tesla model 3 SR+ is competitive with this MSRP), whjile if you were to fully option a BMW M3 competition, you could push the price fairly easily above 100k.

bmw 330.JPG BMW M3.JPG

I dont know Merc and Audi as well, but I feel fairly confident that you can do something similar looking at an audi A4 vs a RS4 or a Merc C class vs the equivalent AMG version.

So, this is absolutely a thing, and doesnt do anything to "dilute" or muddy the waters. Its the opposite in fact (if done well / right). The higher end trims are visually distinguishable from the lower end ones, as well as much nicer materials (but the lower end ones do not suffer from worse build quality than the higher end trims of the same model).

So on the muddy the waters comment, I disagree, for the reason above.

Now, back to the premise in this thread, however. Teslas already present more "usable speed" than most people are familiar with, and than many could even control. Even the "slow" teslas are F...A....S...T. The model 3 P from 0 to about 100 ish will beat most cars on the road, let alone in its price class. Ones that come close are true sports cars. In a model 3 you can smoke people with 2 kids in car seats in the back (even though you likely shouldnt).

We are talking (as someone.. I think @Knightshade ) said, a car that is already faster than 99% of the cars on the road, being made into a car that is faster than 99.9% cars on the road. There is not enough market there for a company that wont even offer decent ability of options, to segregate their market offering further.

Maybe in a few years, but they would be much better served (and likely make a boatload more money) that instead of engineering something like this (a tri motor model 3), putting the effort into increasing the range of the current model 3 as much as they can, AND offering a decent option slate (more colors, factory adjustable suspension, more rim options, more options on the interior) that they could upcharge for.

Maybe my 15 years of "BMW ness" has me used to being able to "get what I want" in a vehicle, if I am willing to pay, but Such a car as suggested by the OP would have a very small market. A few would buy it, but as @BeeGood mentioned, it would likely be better to make a $150k version of the roadster than make a 90-100k model 3. Its almost the same market, in my opinion, and the person who is daily driving their loaded model S / X and wants a weekend flashy car, might drop that money on a 150k roadster, but likely wouldnt on a model 3 that looks just like every other model 3, even if its as fast as a bugatti.
 
Speed does not, but acceleration does. If you’re making a quicker car (which I thought was the main point of plaid), you’re going to sacrifice range if you keep the battery the same.

And I agree you’d sell more Plaid M3s @75-80. No question. The question is would Tesla even make money doing that. They’d have to figure out how to get that battery into a smaller car and sell it for not much more than a performance 3.

I would think realistically, we’re probably looking at a $100K car. That just doesn’t seem like a model 3 to me at that point.

Acceleration ability doesn't affect range. Performance vs AWD LR have the exact same range with the exact same tire package. If you drive the Plaid Model 3 the same sedate way as a LR AWD with the same battery, both should get the same exact range with the same tires. It's not like an ICE car where acceleration is directly tied to displacement of engine. EPA testing doesn't go balls out acceleration so if they tested a Plaid version with same battery pack and tires, that should be the same EPA rating
 
speed has little to do with range on EVs
I think you mean that acceleration has little to do with range on EV's, as speed has everything to do with range on EV's. Every time you double your speed, you quadruple the drag. Mess around with abetterrouteplanner.com, and take a look at the difference in range you'll have between planning a trip at 55 vs 70.

Battery size does matter as to how much acceleration you can get out of a pack, too, which I think is one of the points the poster you quoted was making.
 
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No. I would rather pay $90-100k for a Porsche Carrera S as a weekend car.
Well, it'd have to be a used one. Not even a stripper S costs below 6 figures, and a decently optioned one is well north of that :).

Having said that, no way in hell Tesla would be able to sell a $90-100K M3 in any meaningful numbers. Any M3 has to sell below the S. So NO, I'd never even consider such car myself. A very real prospect would be to sell an M3 'plaid' with the previous 2.4 0-60 of the MS-P, at let's say, $70K, now that the cheapest S costs $80K, and the M3-P costs $58K. THAT could be done by just replacing the rear motor, no? Yes, the battery pack is smaller, but the car much lighter, so I'm sure there's no issue achieving 2.4 0-60, with the exception of reduced range, of course. But if it's offered with aero covers AND regular 20' wheels, range could be at least what the current M3-P has with its standard 20" wheels. No need to change anything else. I'd buy one if range (with aero covers) was between M3-P and LR.
 
Just a few thoughts regarding those who are of the opinion that a Plaid Model 3 Performance would cannibalize the sales of other Teslas...

@jjrandorin makes a great point with how well BMW is able to take each of their "X Series" vehicles, and tailor them to a specific subset of buyers.

Guys that like smaller cars can get a 300 series starting from a (relatively) cheap price (keeping in mind this is still a luxury/sport marque), all the way up to the M3, with a lot of stuff to choose from in between.

Wanna go bigger? Move up to the 500 series, and again you have everything from a base model to the M5. Still not big enough? The 700 series has you covered. It has been a while since I looked at BMW's lineup.... do they still even make the 700 series? Hmmm.. Time to refresh my brain on their offerings.

IMO, it's a fantastic way to distinguish your products. Tesla could very well do the same with their lineup, too. Starting with the Model 3 SR, all the way up through the Model 3 Performance, and finishing out with a Plaid+ Model 3 Performance. Rinse and repeat with the Model S, X, and Y.

Honestly, I just couldn't buy a Plaid(+) Model 3 Performance fast enough. It would be my personal dream car.
 
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Nope.. I hardly ever put my "foot to the floor" in my model 3P as it is. I dont have to, I can already accomplish what I am after without going "full throttle". Only time I do, is when I (used to) take people for a ride around the block for them to see what its like.

I agree. The only thing that would be nice would be better kick at high speeds. But more off the line is strictly bragging rights, ego or for the track. And to get those insane speeds on the S it's gonna need preheating, cheata stance etc. Not to mention a lot of tires. For routine spirited driving the 3P is more than enough.
 
Just a few thoughts regarding those who are of the opinion that a Plaid Model 3 Performance would cannibalize the sales of other Teslas...

@jjrandorin makes a great point with how well BMW is able to take each of their "X Series" vehicles, and tailor them to a specific subset of buyers.

Guys that like smaller cars can get a 300 series starting from a (relatively) cheap price (keeping in mind this is still a luxury/sport marque), all the way up to the M3, with a lot of stuff to choose from in between.

Wanna go bigger? Move up to the 500 series, and again you have everything from a base model to the M5. Still not big enough? The 700 series has you covered. It has been a while since I looked at BMW's lineup.... do they still even make the 700 series? Hmmm.. Time to refresh my brain on their offerings.

IMO, it's a fantastic way to distinguish your products. Tesla could very well do the same with their lineup, too. Starting with the Model 3 SR, all the way up through the Model 3 Performance, and finishing out with a Plaid+ Model 3 Performance. Rinse and repeat with the Model S, X, and Y.

Honestly, I just couldn't buy a Plaid(+) Model 3 Performance fast enough. It would be my personal dream car.


Man, I like your style!! You and I definitely think alike!

I’m going to fuel some more debate with the following thoughts:

For those who think the reason why Tesla would not offer a Plaid Model 3 is because it would cannibalize sales from Tesla’s other models or there is not a large enough market for such a trim, I offer the following food for thought:

1. There is a huge number of performance enthusiasts out there who prefer/want smaller vehicles. You can start to understand just how big this market is by looking at the sales numbers for the smaller size Mercedes AMG line of sedans, smaller size Audi RS line of sedans and smaller size BMW M Competition series models. There is a reason why these “Big Three” manufacturers have placed a lot of focus on their small-to-mid size ultra-high performance model lines.... it’s a huge and very profitable market. Not sure about anyone else here, but I see a ton of the smaller model AMG’s, RS’s and M series on the road. Lots of enthusiasts out there spending $75-80K and up after upgrades on the above mentioned smaller models. So, what is the fastest 0-60 time with any of above $75-80K models? Looks like around 3.6 seconds according to these manufacturer’s published numbers. So, do you think these types of buyers would find a $90K Tesla Plaid Model 3 (that can do 0-60 in just 2.3 seconds or less) appealing? I think the answer is obvious.

2. I think Tesla is smart enough to know/understand everything mentioned above. So, if they choose to offer a Plaid or Plaid+ Model 3, the justification & business model would be to capture sales from the existing (very large) market described above. I can assure you Tesla would have no concern about cannibalizing sales from other Tesla models. The overall market is simply too large for this to even be a concern.

I am happy to offer my services, if Tesla needs a beta-tester to evaluate the potential for and work out the kinks on a Plaid Model 3.
Elon, you have my number. So, hit me up anytime... ;) :D
 
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The biggest constraint on the 3 would be the battery. They can't fit 100kwh into the chassis with the current gen of cells. But with the new rolled battery, if it's compact enough and energy dense enough to fit 90-100kwh into the 3's chassis ... then it should work.

Otherwise, you're talking about pulling plad power levels from a smaller 75-80kw pack, which means more stress per cell. No way they're doing that on the current battery pack.