Would you still have bought your model 3 if it never had autopilot?

[Marius A]

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Norway does kinda have the worst road/highway system (in western europe at least)- but it's not an island and there's plenty of divided highways all over other Scandinavian countries (and the rest of the EU) where current Tesla AP systems are intended to work.

The fact you appear to have bought the system without understanding what it actually does and where it's intended to work is on you though- not Tesla.





Wait I thought you didn't have multi-lane divided highways?

Seriously though that's a real issue- never heard of a car doing that.

Could be something wrong with the maps for Norway I guess... as I say I never get the change lanes to follow route thing more thana mile or two before whatever exit/fork/etc is relevant....

Have you driven in other countries and experience the same thing?

Actually, that's on Tesla's sales team in Norway . Also, a car without adaptive cruise control and lane assistant in 2019, not what I expect from a $55k car with "fully self driving" package.

100% would buy without Autopilot. I miss using a real functional cruise control.
(Used it all the time to protect me from my lead foot in previous vehicles... I also miss going 350+ miles at 80+ mph without stopping on road trips, but I knew that ability wasn't a feature of the SR+... I also miss real buttons & switches for doing things without needing to look, but that's another thread)

TACC straight up sucks:

• Panic braking at shadows on an empty street / open freeway
• Panic braking at vehicles turning ahead of my vehicle (vehicles that wouldn't be an impediment to cars 2+ car-lengths closer)
• Panic braking at parked cars that aren't even in my lane of travel
• Slowing down when changing lanes, despite no other vehicles in path within specified follow distance
• All this is still happening on 32.12.2

I wish I had regular cruise control. Just want something that actually works.

Since 'Autopilot' ,aka- Autosteer, appears to be TACC + limited lane following ability, it makes sense that AP / Autosteer sucks too. Both are decent for reducing stress in sunny/clear stop & go traffic, but not much else. IMHO, AP drives like a drunk 8 year old. Yes, I know it is allegedly a beta product. I work with custom hardware/software/AI/ML and understand the definition, so AP seems more an alpha product to me. Anyway... back on topic.

No, I don't expect AP to work outside a highway/freeway/interstate, but I do expect it to be able to follow a lane through a gentle curve at freeway speed. Which it can barely do below 65 mph without swerving & over-correcting, and cannot do above 65 mph without getting too close to nearby cars / leaving the lane a little. When using AP above 65 mph through sweeping curves, it under turns in the beginning and/or middle of the sweeper, then it over-corrects late in the turn and puts itself far too close to the inside lanes / cars coming out of the turn. I've watched other Model 3s using AP (driver visibly surfing FB and texting in front of their face) ahead of me on the same curve, and their car will 'follow' that curve the same exact way, so I know its not a calibration issue with just my unit.

TL;DR- Seriously, if Tesla can't even make cruise control work correctly, how are they ever going to do anything above Lvl. 2 automation... I drive better with my knee, while eating a taco, sending a voice text, and changing the music than this car can with clean glass/lenses and the latest firmware on an sunny/dry empty freeway. From looking at my car's abilities on TACC & AP, its crystal clear that something approximating FSD is at least several major hardware refreshes away. I do not believe for one second that the current system is even remotely capable of freeway only Lvl. 3 or 4 autonomy in a real and meaningful way.

Preaching to the choir! Unfortunately for me, after I realized how many faults the TM3 had and how awful AP is I was not able to get a hold of Tesla in Norway (took 4-5 days of trying to get through in the phone, email is still never answered), so I missed my chance to deliver it back within the 7 day window. I would still buy a TM3, one which isn't riddled with faults like mine, but no way I would still pay for the FSD package.

 

[Knightshade]

Actually, that's on Tesla's sales team in Norway . .

It's Teslas sales teams fault you didn't do any research before spending $55,000 on something?

 

[Tres_Azul]

Nope, lack of research is 100% my fault. I totally would have / should have done an AWD or RWD LR, and tried to get them to refund/disable the AP features from the get go.

In my defense though:

• My purchase timeline was super-short due to previous vehicle crash/total loss (other driver's fault)
• Researching a Tesla is crazy difficult due to all the rabid fanbois spreading nonsense
• The TACC/AP in the demo car worked WAY better on the same stretches of freeway here in PHX

EDIT= Sorry, weren't typing to me. Sloppy reading.

 

[Lanzer]

I was already a happy camper with a Nissan Leaf. Needless to say I was over the moon with the Model 3, with or without AP.

However I shelled out the 5k for AP and I absolutely loved the feature. Took many road trips because of the ease AP provides, and I also use it on everyday driving.

 

[Wampa]

I don't drive much, and only just went on my first real road trip (8hr each way). Steering was a breeze and the cruise control was enough for me. Basically drove the whole way just speeding up and slowing down with the scroll wheel.

If I was commuting daily or regularly took long trips, then maybe I would consider it. However I enjoy the way it handles and have no plans to purchase AP. I still enjoy driving, quite a bit.

 

[0ptions]

I actually did purchase my car without Autopilot. Was never planning on buying it either knowing the price would be going up. However, when the price went DOWN, I purchased it. Glad I did, but it was not necessary for me to make the original decision to purchase the vehicle.

 

[Nocturnal]

Yes. I didn't know how useful it would be to be honest. If AP was banned tomorrow I'd still love my car though.

 

[run-the-joules]

If AP was banned tomorrow…

Don't even say those words, some yutz in politics might get ideas.

If it happened though, I'd be calling the nearest Audi dealerships to start getting quotes I suppose.

 

[Marius A]

It's Teslas sales teams fault you didn't do any research before spending $55,000 on something?

I spent $55k because they said I could return it in 7 days, but that turned out to be false as they didn't take any calls or respond to any emails. Also, my research showed me a lot of people like you who don't see faults, they only praise features. I don't see the forums bogged down by mentions of autowiper issues, auto floodlights not working properly, LTE issues and the car shouting murder at you if the car in front takes a right hand exit.
But I realize that my words are wasted on somebody who attacks people unwarranted. In truth the AP is far inferior to what is provided in a modern car in the same price range. Saying it's not meant to work outside pristine conditions is really speaking my case.

 

[Knightshade]

I spent $55k because they said I could return it in 7 days, but that turned out to be false as they didn't take any calls or respond to any emails.

You'd think for a 55k refund you'd have just driven to them in person if you couldn't otherwise reach them.

Also, my research showed me a lot of people like you who don't see faults

Wrong again.

I see lots of faults with the company and the car.

"Dude keeps not reading the manual and being upset when it doesn't work in places the manual explicitly says it's not supposed to work" isn't one of em though.

I don't see the forums bogged down by mentions of autowiper issues, auto floodlights not working properly, LTE issues and the car shouting murder at you if the car in front takes a right hand exit.

You aren't looking very hard.

There's tons of threads on those topics.

In truth the AP is far inferior to what is provided in a modern car in the same price range. Saying it's not meant to work outside pristine conditions is really speaking my case.

Weird because every professional comparison/test I've ever seen says otherwise.

Only other system remotely on a comparable level is Caddy- and it works far less places than Teslas system.

 

[St☰v☰]

TACC straight up sucks:

• Panic braking at shadows on an empty street / open freeway
• Panic braking at vehicles turning ahead of my vehicle (vehicles that wouldn't be an impediment to cars 2+ car-lengths closer)
• Panic braking at parked cars that aren't even in my lane of travel
• Slowing down when changing lanes, despite no other vehicles in path within specified follow distance
• All this is still happening on 32.12.2.

I completely agree. I have two episodes of phantom braking today, the first time I was passing under a street light int he dark this morning and this afternoon the car jammed on the brakes as I was changing lanes. I hope the next update cures these (and other) issues.

 

[Fernand]

I have truly wondered at times if all Model 3s are the same. Because mine has been quite good, surpassing expectations - and my logic in buying all in on automation. But read on.

Reading some of the bad experiences, they are nothing like mine. My car (as spec'ed in my sig) has been a joy to drive in AP/AS and NOA.

Early on, before I understood, I'd blamed it for misbehavior (bad Nicki!) that included bizarre stuff, even heading straight for the ditch, or oncoming traffic. Then I realized that I was jerking it out of Auto to "apply torque", so by the time I angrily disabled automation, the AS had already been disengaged, and the steering was freewheeling. After some adaptations, I no longer jerk it, and that improved my outlook something like 100% ;-)

And then there are situations where AP/AS is inappropriate, like construction zones, or where dividing lines are scrambled - why bother? On (wider) streets, it's not meant for that, I engage and disengage frequently, but it's still a benefit here and there. It's not about proving yes or no. It does take a while to learn the ropes.

I don't know how many cases are due to what. Are some people just pushing beyond known limits? But there do seem to be "somethings" going on that differentiate the happy from the frustrated AP users.

FWIW, in 10 months I've only had a handful of events like unwarranted slowdowns, trouble centering etc. I've driven it OK in Auto on undivided roads, on some city boulevards and of course on freeways. It used to drive like a beginner. Now it may not equal a focused adult, like the merciless way I drive when I'm late for a meeting, but it's very presentable. So why this difference?
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