According to car and driver instrumented tests, many high level performance cars (e.g. 2015 BMW M3) have 50-70 times in the high 2's, so I would think anything at around 3 or less would feel quite fast. Given 85D performance numbers (and HP, torque) look to be between 70D and P85D (somewhat closer to 70D), I think it's not unreasonable to estimate (not at all wildly speculating) that many of its numbers fall in between, and slightly towards the 70D side. A 30-70 acceleration of around 4 seconds is very fast. 50-70 in mid 2 is a very fast acceleration as well and comparable to top level performance ICE cars.
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big thing to remember with ICE is (I guess) most of the mid times are extracted from eg 0-100 times not from pedal WOT.
Even 0-x times are most likely with 1ft rollout, ie when the car starts to move, not when the driver stomps on the accelerator which could be several fractions of a second earlier.
Also for eg Audi's with the STronic Dual Clutch boxes, the times are with Launch Control on, you can knock up to a second off those times for a normal launch.
This is where EV really scores due to near instantaneous response.
Whilst most autos are still shuffling gears, winding up turbos, the Model S has long gone.
Even 0-x times are most likely with 1ft rollout, ie when the car starts to move, not when the driver stomps on the accelerator which could be several fractions of a second earlier.
Also for eg Audi's with the STronic Dual Clutch boxes, the times are with Launch Control on, you can knock up to a second off those times for a normal launch.
This is where EV really scores due to near instantaneous response.
Whilst most autos are still shuffling gears, winding up turbos, the Model S has long gone.
I did manage 4.2 in one of my runs when the update came out but just barely. Also, it could be just a function of my method: iPhone 6 slo-mo mode recording of an iPhone 5 stop watch next to the dash. I could then scrub through to the exact moment and screenshot it. It may not be scientifically accurate but good enough for me.
EDIT: Hmm: In the same video, I looked at 30-50 and it was 8.46-7.12=1.34 seconds. Does that look right?
4.4 was easy to confirm though.
85D 0-60 MPH 4.4s Sport Acceleration confirmed
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great info - thanks Zex
(can you reference the source of your data - somebody is bound to ask!)
all we need is the 60 and the 85D and we're about there.
85D in particular will be interesting vs P85
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@caps04 - Thanks. I know iphone is not as accurate as a full gps timing device, but any chance you could do another run to capture the figures per the table please.
It'll give us an idea, even if more accurate timing comes along in future.
(can you reference the source of your data - somebody is bound to ask!)
all we need is the 60 and the 85D and we're about there.
85D in particular will be interesting vs P85
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@caps04 - Thanks. I know iphone is not as accurate as a full gps timing device, but any chance you could do another run to capture the figures per the table please.
It'll give us an idea, even if more accurate timing comes along in future.
PV4EV
Member
Since we covering all MS variations, might as well complete it with a reference to the Roadster 2.5 sport :smile:
| TM Website | Actual | ||||||||
| 0-60 | 0-60 | 30-50 | 50-70 | 30-70 | 70-90 | 50-100 | 1/4 | notes | |
| 40 | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | Anyone?? |
| 60 | 5.2 | 5.3 | |||||||
| 70D | 5.2 | 5.1 | 2.0 | 3.1 | 5.1 | 13.8s | Car & Driver | ||
| 85 | 5.4 | 5.0 | 1.7 | 2.1 | 3.8 | 2.8 | 6.8 | 13.2s @ 110.9mph | MotorTrend 2013 |
| 85D | 4.4 | ||||||||
| P85 | 4.2 | 4.0 | 1.4 | 1.9 | 3.3 | 2.7 | 6.4 | 12.4s @ 112.5mph | MotorTrend 2013 |
| P85D | 3.1 | 3.05 | 1.15 | 1.65 | 2.80 | 2.50 | 5.80 | 11.5s @ 115.7mph | Dragtimes 2015 |
| Roadster reference | 3.7 | 3.7 | 1.3 | 2.0 | 3.3 | 3.7 | 8.7 | 12.6s @ 102mph | Road&Track 2011 |
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Where did the S85 data come from?
These numbers definitely invite analysis.
At first glance, the dual motor cars all must have insane 0-30 (I can only estimate, since we don't have those numbers).
The assumption of course (and I am sure everyone can agree), the higher the speed, the slower the acceleration (except the very beginning for single motor cars, due to traction).
Let's look at the P85D:
In the 20 miles from 30-50, it uses 1.15 seconds, while 50-70, it uses 1.65 seconds. We can reasonably assume that 50-60 took 0.75 while 60-70 took 0.9. Under this assumption, 30-60 would have taken 1.9 seconds, which means 0-30 happened in 1.15 seconds, which would make people feel amazing acceleration, maybe almost being kicked into their seats (this is where G most certainly exceeds 1 or maybe even 1.1 or 1.2, not sure since I have not seen a G chart, and people feel the insaneness that we have all heard about).
Now let's look at the 70D:
30-50 took 2.0 while 50-70 took 3.1, so let's estimate that 50-60 took 1.4 while 60-70 took 1.7. This means 30-60 in 3.4, which translates to a 0-30 in 1.7 seconds, although not insane, but still amazing by almost any ICE car standards.
For P85:
50-60 in 0.85 and 60-70 in 1.05, then 30-60 in 2.25, and 0-30 in 1.65. (you may be noticing that basically I am assuming that 60-70 takes about 20% longer than 50-60 in all cases).
For 85 (assuming data is correct):
50-60 in 0.9 and 60-70 in 1.1, then 30-60 in 2.6 and 0-30 in 2.4 (this makes me feel some of the numbers for the S85 are suspect, the mid range acceleration is too fast, while the 0-30 is too slow, since it should have less traction problems than the P85... so although it should be slower, it shouldn't be 0.75 seconds slower.
I think the 70D, P85D, and P85 all came from pretty authoritative sources, so basically it means all the dual motor cars have amazing 0-30 accelerations. However, the 70D has only normal performance sedan mid range accelerations, while the P85D and P85 maintain top level sports car mid level accelerations.
These numbers definitely invite analysis.
At first glance, the dual motor cars all must have insane 0-30 (I can only estimate, since we don't have those numbers).
The assumption of course (and I am sure everyone can agree), the higher the speed, the slower the acceleration (except the very beginning for single motor cars, due to traction).
Let's look at the P85D:
In the 20 miles from 30-50, it uses 1.15 seconds, while 50-70, it uses 1.65 seconds. We can reasonably assume that 50-60 took 0.75 while 60-70 took 0.9. Under this assumption, 30-60 would have taken 1.9 seconds, which means 0-30 happened in 1.15 seconds, which would make people feel amazing acceleration, maybe almost being kicked into their seats (this is where G most certainly exceeds 1 or maybe even 1.1 or 1.2, not sure since I have not seen a G chart, and people feel the insaneness that we have all heard about).
Now let's look at the 70D:
30-50 took 2.0 while 50-70 took 3.1, so let's estimate that 50-60 took 1.4 while 60-70 took 1.7. This means 30-60 in 3.4, which translates to a 0-30 in 1.7 seconds, although not insane, but still amazing by almost any ICE car standards.
For P85:
50-60 in 0.85 and 60-70 in 1.05, then 30-60 in 2.25, and 0-30 in 1.65. (you may be noticing that basically I am assuming that 60-70 takes about 20% longer than 50-60 in all cases).
For 85 (assuming data is correct):
50-60 in 0.9 and 60-70 in 1.1, then 30-60 in 2.6 and 0-30 in 2.4 (this makes me feel some of the numbers for the S85 are suspect, the mid range acceleration is too fast, while the 0-30 is too slow, since it should have less traction problems than the P85... so although it should be slower, it shouldn't be 0.75 seconds slower.
I think the 70D, P85D, and P85 all came from pretty authoritative sources, so basically it means all the dual motor cars have amazing 0-30 accelerations. However, the 70D has only normal performance sedan mid range accelerations, while the P85D and P85 maintain top level sports car mid level accelerations.
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thanky you PV 4 EV
I know there have been some 3.9x 0-60 data for P85 too but not sure where that was 'published'
was it really 5.2s for the S60 0-60 on the TM site?..(drag times has different #s from 2013)
I know there have been some 3.9x 0-60 data for P85 too but not sure where that was 'published'
was it really 5.2s for the S60 0-60 on the TM site?..(drag times has different #s from 2013)
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some more 60 data from drag times
[/QUOTE]
| TM Website | Actual | ||||||||
| 0-60 | 0-60 | 30-50 | 50-70 | 30-70 | 70-90 | 50-100 | 1/4 | notes | |
| 60 | 5.9 | 5.1 | 13.7 @ 102.8mph | drag times | |||||
| 70D | 5.2 | 5.1 | 2.0 | 3.1 | 5.1 | 13.8s | Car & Driver | ||
| 85 | 5.4 | 5.0 | 1.7 | 2.1 | 3.8 | 2.8 | 6.8 | 13.2s @ 110.9mph | MotorTrend 2013 |
| 85D | 4.4 | ||||||||
| P85 | 4.2 | 4.0 | 1.4 | 1.9 | 3.3 | 2.7 | 6.4 | 12.4s @ 112.5mph | MotorTrend 2013 |
| P85D | 3.1 | 3.05 | 1.15 | 1.65 | 2.80 | 2.50 | 5.80 | 11.5s @ 115.7mph | Dragtimes 2015 |
| Roadster reference | 3.7 | 3.7 | 1.3 | 2.0 | 3.3 | 3.7 | 8.7 | 12.6s @ 102mph | Road&Track 2011 |
PV4EV
Member
Yeah, I've seen 3.9s a few times in the past .. but annoyingly, I can't find a specific link at present !
All the figs for the P85 (including the 0-60 in 4.0) were taken from the same MotorTrend 2013 road test and used for consistency, rather than cherry pick the best ones from numerous sources leading to slightly inconsistent incremental figures.
But if anyone can find a road test where most/all the other incremental times were also published, including a 3.9s to 60, then sure, lets update the table !
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I guess different media has different test times. Car and driver tested the 2013 P85 and came back with much slower numbers of 4.6, 1.8, 2.3, 13.3.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-tesla-model-s-test-review
Maybe software updates recently has made it faster? But both Car and Driver and Motor trend did their tests around the same time on a 2013...
They also tested 2014 S60 in Nov 2014 with numbers of 5.5, 2.0, 2.9, 14.2.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-tesla-model-s-60-full-test-review
Could it be that car and driver tests are more realistic while motortrend tests are more ideal (like under prefect conditions, acceleration, on a drag strip with amazing unrealistic tracktion, etc).
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-tesla-model-s-test-review
Maybe software updates recently has made it faster? But both Car and Driver and Motor trend did their tests around the same time on a 2013...
They also tested 2014 S60 in Nov 2014 with numbers of 5.5, 2.0, 2.9, 14.2.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-tesla-model-s-60-full-test-review
Could it be that car and driver tests are more realistic while motortrend tests are more ideal (like under prefect conditions, acceleration, on a drag strip with amazing unrealistic tracktion, etc).
Dragtimes #'s for MS85 and MS60:
2014 Tesla Model S 85 0-60 MPH Testing - YouTube <- 4.9s for S85
Tesla Model S 60 kWH 0-60 MPH Testing - YouTube <- 5.1s for S60
These are a bit different from what's in the table, but the problem is that we won't have an apples-to-apples comparison with all cars being driven on the same track with the same driver. Even a slight elevation change can affect the results.
2014 Tesla Model S 85 0-60 MPH Testing - YouTube <- 4.9s for S85
Tesla Model S 60 kWH 0-60 MPH Testing - YouTube <- 5.1s for S60
These are a bit different from what's in the table, but the problem is that we won't have an apples-to-apples comparison with all cars being driven on the same track with the same driver. Even a slight elevation change can affect the results.
Some additional plots from a pretty authoritative Chinese site "autohome.com.cn" that definitely shows P85 crossing 96km/h (60mph) at around 4.1-4.2 seconds, so that one should be good. The plots are really good since you can see velocity and G vs time.
P85 acceleration, 0-100km (0-62m):
http://www.autohome.com.cn/img/?img=newspic/2013/12/1/2013120117142509493.jpg
Based on this graph, my previous suspicion is confirmed, as the car spends about 0.4 seconds gaining traction, and in fact doesn't cross 30mph until maybe 1.95 seconds.
This is the same graph for P85D, which shows almost instant (0.1s delay) 1G acceleration, reaching 30mph in about 1.4s. Due to temp in the 50s I think the car didn't reach 60mph until around 3.5s.
http://www.autohome.com.cn/img/?img=zx/newspic/2015/3/12/2015031220051442909.jpg
P85 acceleration, 0-100km (0-62m):
http://www.autohome.com.cn/img/?img=newspic/2013/12/1/2013120117142509493.jpg
Based on this graph, my previous suspicion is confirmed, as the car spends about 0.4 seconds gaining traction, and in fact doesn't cross 30mph until maybe 1.95 seconds.
This is the same graph for P85D, which shows almost instant (0.1s delay) 1G acceleration, reaching 30mph in about 1.4s. Due to temp in the 50s I think the car didn't reach 60mph until around 3.5s.
http://www.autohome.com.cn/img/?img=zx/newspic/2015/3/12/2015031220051442909.jpg
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PV4EV
Member
The problem with looking at many different road tests is that they all use slightly different methods, or test gear, or maybe have two people in the car instead of one, or they account for rollout, or they don’t, or they include driver reaction times or not, and numerous other marginal factors like headwind, slightly damp road and so on, etc etc !
But from what I've seen in the various road tests we're splitting hairs, and the overwhelming conclusion is that the Model S has amazing acceleration which is much more easily exploited than in an ICE car. Bear in mind that good old fashioned ICE car test results often rely upon setting up ideal launch conditions or using launch mode settings, whereas the MS just does it with no drama. Although the motor/battery system would start to get warm if you demonstrated 0-60 in 3.05seconds ten times in 2 minutes ! Besides, just think how much mechanical carnage goes on within an ICE drive train trying repeated launches, that can lead to occasionally expensive gearbox / clutch / engine damage.
Personally, I'm more interested in the *rate-of-acceleration* once the car is already moving, and such figures are easier to deduce from recorded increments or graphs without getting too concerned about whether the car got a perfect launch, or if it was delayed by 0.3 second or whatever. Once rolling the rate of acceleration is usually consistent.
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Would be good to include some figs for the uber rare 40, but were any road tests ever published before it was withdrawn ?
Also, IIRC Tesla shipped limited numbers of 40 models with 60kwh packs but somehow restricted them to be 40kwh performance since thats what the purchaser had paid for, and they then offered them option to upgrade to a 60kwh through software. I can understand why Tesla did that, but I wonder how many 40's are out in the wild with owners refusing to take the 60kwh upgrade path ?!?
Latest :-
| TM Website | Actual | ||||||||
| 0-60 | 0-60 | 30-50 | 50-70 | 30-70 | 70-90 | 50-100 | 1/4 | notes | |
| 40 | 6.5 | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | Anyone?? |
| 60 | 5.2 | 5.3 | |||||||
| 70D | 5.2 | 5.1 | 2.0 | 3.1 | 5.1 | 13.8s | Car & Driver | ||
| 85 | 5.4 | 5.0 | 1.7 | 2.1 | 3.8 | 2.8 | 6.8 | 13.2s @ 110.9mph | MotorTrend 2013 |
| 85D | 4.4 | ||||||||
| P85 | 4.2 | 4.0 | 1.4 | 1.9 | 3.3 | 2.7 | 6.4 | 12.4s @ 112.5mph | MotorTrend 2013 |
| P85D | 3.1 | 3.05 | 1.15 | 1.65 | 2.80 | 2.50 | 5.80 | 11.5s @ 115.7mph | Dragtimes 2015 |
| Roadster reference | 3.7 | 3.7 | 1.3 | 2.0 | 3.3 | 3.7 | 8.7 | 12.6s @ 102mph | Road&Track 2011 |
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wallet.dat
Member
I'm pretty sure the 50-70mph times you find in magazines (not just Car and Driver, and not just for EVs) are going to artificially high because they do their 50-70 runs from a cruising/steady 50mph in top gear. Hence the usual label of "Top gear, 50-70mph".
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