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10.9 FSD
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
EVNow
Well-Known Member
It hasn’t been released yet - still in internal employee testing. What we see here is some employee leaking release notes.
EVJAutoJunkie said: FSD 10.9 was just released today. It doesn't appear to be hitting many cars just yet.
EVNow said: It hasn’t been released yet - still in internal employee testing. What we see here is some employee leaking release notes.
Hmm. If you hear more, let me know and I'll update this: Trying to Make Sense....
I am anxious to receive new updates as I lost use of my two USB data ports around December 24th. That may be due to a hardware failure, but it is suspicious timing, I think.
Was just searching TMC and I see that there are (naturally) fuse boxes in Models S and X. Perhaps there is a blown fuse that controls only the two USB data ports? My other two USB power-only ports and the front and rear 12v outlets are working fine, afaik.
EVNow said: It hasn’t been released yet - still in internal employee testing. What we see here is some employee leaking release notes.
Hmm. If you hear more, let me know and I'll update this: Trying to Make Sense....
I am anxious to receive new updates as I lost use of my two USB data ports around December 24th. That may be due to a hardware failure, but it is suspicious timing, I think.
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Was just searching TMC and I see that there are (naturally) fuse boxes in Models S and X. Perhaps there is a blown fuse that controls only the two USB data ports? My other two USB power-only ports and the front and rear 12v outlets are working fine, afaik.
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EVJAutoJunkie
EV Junkie
I saw two cars on Teslacope with it. I am not sure if Tesla employees are allowed to be part of that data point in 3rd party sites like Teslacope, but nonetheless, my account on that site shows two confirmed installs.
I am not seeing anything on my Teslafi account yet.
I am not seeing anything on my Teslafi account yet.
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Mine does a full send over a sharp downhill crest directly past an intersection near me... curious if this will actually help that case without messing up the other 80% of intersections that it crawls through too slowly today
Phantom braking isn’t going to be solved until FSD is solved. You get phantom braking because of errors in the car’s prescription and understanding of its local environment. If it can do that flawlessly then FSD is solved and implicitly so will phantom braking.
Every Beta update there are 1 or 2 cars on Teslacope that get a few days before it is released and are all but certain to be employe/internal cars. When it is released the original YouTubers will get it first. So no YouTube videos then it is NO release yet since they all want to be first to post a video of it downloading, installing and/or Release Notes.
I'm betting donuts on a Tuesday 12:01 release. So not long now. However I have found myself in the middle or towards the end of the cue on the last few so I'm more likely for Saturday Morning to next Monday morning range.
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This seems to be a bit oversimplified. Since reality is infinitely complex, it is not possible to identify all relevant aspects of it perfectly. For example, our eyes, as well as the cameras in the car, cannot always recognize all things perfectly.
Example 1: A child moves towards the street and is then obscured by a parked car. Whether the car or a human driver believes that the child will soon appear again and collide with the car is a matter of conjecture and of risk estimation. Has the child looked at my car? Could I reliably recognize this? Was the child carrying a ball? What is the probability of the child accidentally dropping the ball and then running after it?
Example 2: Something that cannot be clearly recognized because of poor visibility moves towards the street and seems to disappear behind a parked car. The human driver believes it was a piece of newspaper, blown by the wind. The car believes it could be a child and brakes. For the human this is phantom braking. For the car it was a justified safety measure.
Reality recognition can never be flawless. Therefore it is not clear what exactly could be meant by "FSD is solved." There is always a residual risk. There will always be some accidents. So the question remains where to draw the line between solved and not quite solved.
Of course, FSD could have fewer accidents than the average human driver or ten times fewer. There will still be the occasional accident where people will say, and newspapers will write, this would not have happened to a human driver, probably unjustified, but still influencing opinions.
EVJAutoJunkie
EV Junkie
I'm betting donuts on a Tuesday 12:01 release. So not long now. However I have found myself in the middle or towards the end of the cue on the last few so I'm more likely for Saturday Morning to next Monday morning range.
I"m in the same boat when it comes to my place in line. I gathered it may have been because I don't have too many miles on the car, but who knows.
I'm expecting delivery on a 2022 Plaid S hopefully by this Spring, so I"m curious if ll'll be even further in the back of the cue as the factory software will surely be outdated.
Fernand
Active Member
As far as "phantom" slowdowns, it's almost Entirely speed limit change issues for me now. When does a "recommended" speed count as a limit? And those rapid speed changes that humans just ignore? There are spots where 10.8.1. does the human thing and "turns a blind eye" because if it literally obeyed, it would be "phantom braking".
As to heavy fog and other bad conditions, the way humans handle it is generally unsafe. Just crossa-da-fingers. I'm curious to see if it develops something like that "photon counting". For now, I can relate to "you're on your own, I can't see squat".
As to heavy fog and other bad conditions, the way humans handle it is generally unsafe. Just crossa-da-fingers. I'm curious to see if it develops something like that "photon counting". For now, I can relate to "you're on your own, I can't see squat".
The point is that phantom braking is not some singular problem that can just be addressed by some code/AI fix, which was what @NCC81701 was trying to convey to someone asking why phantom braking is still an issue after so many FSD beta releases.
I don't agree that your 2 examples are phantom braking. We use the word phantom because there is no observable or logical reason for the braking event. Humans would also slam on the brakes in anticipation of a potential kid shooting out into the road. There's a logical safety precaution behind the decision. We'd hardly fault an AV for that.
Is it phantom braking/swerving for say mailboxes that FSD Beta believes is a pedestrian? The mailbox is clearly observable but also clearly not actually a vulnerable road user (just that people are more likely to be standing near mailboxes).
These types of false positives can result in unexpected FSD Beta behaviors, so if the release notes mention improved precision, it should help reduce instances of what some people might associate with phantom braking.
It is worse than that and a pet peeve of mine even though I don't have one on order. You will lose Beta altogether and have to reapply with a new car after you wait a couple of weeks on the software to update. This is total BS IMO. Tesla should rush an update with Beta and say Thank You for buying another Tesla.
planetary
EndlessCheese spreader
I got an update notification on my Model S 10 minutes after I took possession, to the then-current version, on Dec 23rd. I thought I'd be at the back of the line for the Christmas update, but no: got that that update the next day. Two updates in 2 days, on a brand new car. Delightful! Not at all like waiting weeks for the first update, as was the policy just a few months ago.
However, @JulienW is correct. Which is a bummer.
ModLTh3
Member
I tend to agree with the mailbox theory. I have a narrow road (one lane in each direction) near my home where the mailboxes are very close to the edge of the road, or slightly overhanging (no curbs). This is where I see phantom braking the most, and also, on occasion, when a large vehicle is approaching from the opposite direction.
Maybe a new artifact identifying mailboxes would eliminate that type of phantom braking. That wouldn't eliminate all PB, but it would be a start. One thing at a time!
It is worse than that and a pet peeve of mine even though I don't have one on order. You will lose Beta altogether and have to reapply with a new car after you wait a couple of weeks on the software to update. This is total BS IMO. Tesla should rush an update with Beta and say Thank You for buying another Tesla.
FSD beta isn’t any sort of thank you gift I would give (at least to to someone I like). It would be like receiving a box of hornets as a present. “Thank you for being a repeat Tesla buyer. We have included a live mountain lion in the trunk as a thank you gift.”
It is a Thank You for helping Tesla by testing the Beta and NOT a gift. You are paying $10K for it so how is that a gift? If you don't like it then no one is forcing you to test. I'm just saying that someone who is willing to pay for and then test Beta for you should not be hindered if willing to pay again while buying a new car and wanting to continue testing for Tesla. This is a double gift TO Tesla and Tesla should be grateful.
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