stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The Leaf uses a synchronous permanent magnet AC motor. Tesla uses an AC induction motor. The two are not the same.
Also, as I mentioned, more importantly is that the loads seen by the two cars are completely different.
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100% drive unit failure rate??
- Thread starter yobigd20
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Also, as I mentioned, more importantly is that the loads seen by the two cars are completely different.
Someone in this thread said that someone at a service center told him that more P versions have had to have drive unit replacements than standard Model Ss. Though that's anecdotal and may just be the pattern at one SC.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
For those unaware...
On the '13+ Leaf, here are two things on what Ingineer's talking about
2013 Nissan Leaf integrated e-powertrain a smaller, lighter package - SAE International
http://saegtl.org/ev/data/uploads/ev-content/gtlev_tp_2014-01-1879.pdf
The 2011-2012 Leaf had the on-board charger in the back of the car and was quite different under the hood. Of course, Ingineer knows WAY more about the technical aspects of the Leaf than I do.
Although the Rav4 EV is rated at almost double the hp of the Leaf (but less than any Model S), it also has had a ton of DUs replaced for noise. Toyota Rav4 EV Forum (Milling Sound), can you hear it in yours is one of the threads.
As Tony Williams asserted "Rav4 EV makes 156 horsepower... and the motors go out. Plus, it's built to allegedly handle the full 416hp.".
On the '13+ Leaf, here are two things on what Ingineer's talking about
2013 Nissan Leaf integrated e-powertrain a smaller, lighter package - SAE International
http://saegtl.org/ev/data/uploads/ev-content/gtlev_tp_2014-01-1879.pdf
The 2011-2012 Leaf had the on-board charger in the back of the car and was quite different under the hood. Of course, Ingineer knows WAY more about the technical aspects of the Leaf than I do.
Although the Rav4 EV is rated at almost double the hp of the Leaf (but less than any Model S), it also has had a ton of DUs replaced for noise. Toyota Rav4 EV Forum (Milling Sound), can you hear it in yours is one of the threads.
As Tony Williams asserted "Rav4 EV makes 156 horsepower... and the motors go out. Plus, it's built to allegedly handle the full 416hp.".
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I don't quite understand why you say this when, if you watch any of the countless videos on YT showing the making of the MS, they all clearly show motors being built in Tesla's factory... Are you a short seller or something? (end of original post)
Now that I have actually looked at Fukuta's catalog, all they do is standard industrial AC motors.
I'm wondering if your sense of humour (given the first syllable of the motor company in question's name) is a bit... challenged? MW
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I don't think name calling is appropriate. I think we can discuss this without resorting to that.
I have seen a couple of threads here about Fukuta making motors for the Model S and there is speculation about it around the net. There is some evidence that Fukuta has claimed some kind of relationship with Tesla, however, most of the material about it is in Chinese, which unfortunately I can't read. On the other hand there are people here on the forum who have witnessed people making motors in the Fremont plant and there is video of people making motors in Fremont.
I think Fukuta supplied some early motors for prototypes, and it's quite possible Tesla licenses some technology from Fukuta today. I would not be surprised if Tesla does license at least some of the technology. Electric motors, especially of the sophistication Tesla needs for the Model S is a very specialized area of engineering. I doubt Tesla had the in house expertise, labs, and time to develop the motors from scratch, so they found a specialty motor company that had something close to what they needed, then licensed the technology, tweaked it to their needs and build it in their factory.
Some people have pointed to recent financial reports from Fukuta, that indicate Fukuta making some ongoing money from Tesla for something. If Tesla was licensing the motor from them, Fukuta would be getting a royalty for each motor built, which may be why Fukuta continues to make money from Tesla.
This is the best explanation I can come up with that covers all the data. The evidence Tesla is building their own motors is overwhelming, but there is some evidence Fukuta has some ongoing relationship too.
Do we have a number?
Is it 10 or 10.000 USD per year? We know the number of cars and motors so we can get general idea of how much is tesla paying fukuta per each motor. It would shed the light over how much of fukuta is in each motor.
I'd gues under 10 bucks...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Here is the thread discussing Fukuta http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/57299-Fukuta-supply-role-to-Tesla. They appear to be supplying some parts to Tesla, and possibly some other, smaller motors, maybe for falcon wing doors, since they talk about "servo motors".
I bet the servo motors are the door handle motors for the Model S. 4 per car for those. They may also supply the motor for the power liftgate that comes with the Premium Interior package.
Did you get a reply to your question? I was wondering the same thing
It's most definitely wet. They use Dexron VI in there, it's filled almost half way up in the case with it.
I've drained and refilled several cars, and so far I've found very little metal on the magnetic plug.
Tesla does a drain/refill every year, so I'd recommend you do it yourself if you aren't taking it in.
I've drained and refilled several cars, and so far I've found very little metal on the magnetic plug.
Tesla does a drain/refill every year, so I'd recommend you do it yourself if you aren't taking it in.
A little more info on 'do-it-yourself' gearbox lube fill would be awesome.
Especially if you've done many, share the knowledge!
I take it this photo is a view from the ground, which side of the car are these plugs accessible from?
What panels have to come off to get access?
If that's the drain plug (red arrow pointing to green plug), then where is the filling port?
For filling, do you put in a fixed amount (volume) of fluid, or fill until some line or brim is reached?
What brand of fluid or certification / rating is good / best / necessary for Tesla's?
I know from days of filling differentials, that you always open the top (filling) plug first, before you drain it by opening the bottom plug.
If you can't open the top plug and you find out only after draining, .. well, it's harder to fill from the bottom up.
I am hoping this forum swings toward a little more helpful hints and DIY service tips as more and more people have now owned these cars, and are falling off warranty.
I am about to share a piece on how to restore door handles that fail to open the door when pulled... a famous problem for a lot of cars. Anybody with some reasonable wrenching skills can do some of these repairs for pennies on the dollar that Tesla would charge at a SC.
Especially if you've done many, share the knowledge!
I take it this photo is a view from the ground, which side of the car are these plugs accessible from?
What panels have to come off to get access?
If that's the drain plug (red arrow pointing to green plug), then where is the filling port?
For filling, do you put in a fixed amount (volume) of fluid, or fill until some line or brim is reached?
What brand of fluid or certification / rating is good / best / necessary for Tesla's?
I know from days of filling differentials, that you always open the top (filling) plug first, before you drain it by opening the bottom plug.
If you can't open the top plug and you find out only after draining, .. well, it's harder to fill from the bottom up.
I am hoping this forum swings toward a little more helpful hints and DIY service tips as more and more people have now owned these cars, and are falling off warranty.
I am about to share a piece on how to restore door handles that fail to open the door when pulled... a famous problem for a lot of cars. Anybody with some reasonable wrenching skills can do some of these repairs for pennies on the dollar that Tesla would charge at a SC.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That seems excessive to say the least. Automatic transmissions don't have that frequent fluid changes, and there is a lot more going on in them, and I would assume at much higher temperatures.
That does not sound like correct information. The support page with the service schedule makes no mention of this:
Service plans
I seem to remember reading that the drive units were actually permanently sealed, but cannot find the link right now.
The support page of the Prius manual makes no mention of changing the transaxle fluid either, but lab analysis of a number of Prius group members' cars indicates that there is significant wearing contamination at 50K miles for the Gen II Prius. Note that the Prius has a pressure vent that can take in contaminants. I don't know whether the Telsa has this kind of valving or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did because pressure build up from heat could cause the seals to leak if not relieved.
If the Service Manuals were available, we'd know.......
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'm fairly sure that is not the case. I seem to remember a mention of a breather vent, which is normal for a gear case.
This is my opinion as well. If there is no way to relieve the pressure, the seals will leak. The question is really if the breather vent is filtered to keep out dirt or not (it's not in the Prius).
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