That's not been my experience!!!
Manual processes are highly tolerant to variations. People accommodate quite a lot - and usually more than the product / system design realize. Robotics and automation don't.
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That's not been my experience!!!
Manual processes are highly tolerant to variations. People accommodate quite a lot - and usually more than the product / system design realize. Robotics and automation don't.True, no argument. However, automation done correctly permits higher production volumes with lower error rates at lower marginal cost. Key: Done correctly. Automation exacerbates the price of errors. My optimism is based on Testa's demonstrated success with factory automation.That's not been my experience!!!
I recall some pretty horrible results when robotics were deployed by simply automating manual processes. Optimal industrial robotics does require engineering the product(s) specifically to be built that way. Recent processes have had few such mishaps. BMW, for example, has used i production to prototype new materials (especially carbon fiber) with low risk. Ford has deployed first in Europe then in Louisville, KY and other places with the learning curve tiered according to quality of local assembly staff, among other things. VW spent a large fortune building the plant for the Phaeton and Bentley Continental in Dresden, adapting their learning curve to highly complex low volume before high volume less complex vehicles. Audi has designed for robotic processes very extensively with excellent results.
Considering all that Tesla has already done, plus putting Peter Hochholder (ex-Audi) in charge of production, the prospects for good surprises in Model III are high. He knows an enormous amount about high volume differentiated production of price-sensitive vehicles.
Finally, even though "manual processes are highly tolerant to variations" manual processes also have quality inversely correlated to variation. Robotics can handle variations without error, as long as they have been designed and programmed correctly. Tesla is pretty good at that, not quite so good on the manual side.
We shall soon see, won't we? I am excited to see if they can pull this off, nit least because I have two of those III's reserved.
True, no argument. However, automation done correctly permits higher production volumes with lower error rates at lower marginal cost. Key: Done correctly. Automation exacerbates the price of errors. My optimism is based on Testa's demonstrated success with factory automation.
I recall some pretty horrible results when robotics were deployed by simply automating manual processes. Optimal industrial robotics does require engineering the product(s) specifically to be built that way. Recent processes have had few such mishaps. BMW, for example, has used i production to prototype new materials (especially carbon fiber) with low risk. Ford has deployed first in Europe then in Louisville, KY and other places with the learning curve tiered according to quality of local assembly staff, among other things. VW spent a large fortune building the plant for the Phaeton and Bentley Continental in Dresden, adapting their learning curve to highly complex low volume before high volume less complex vehicles. Audi has designed for robotic processes very extensively with excellent results.
Considering all that Tesla has already done, plus putting Peter Hochholder (ex-Audi) in charge of production, the prospects for good surprises in Model III are high. He knows an enormous amount about high volume differentiated production of price-sensitive vehicles.
Finally, even though "manual processes are highly tolerant to variations" manual processes also have quality inversely correlated to variation. Robotics can handle variations without error, as long as they have been designed and programmed correctly. Tesla is pretty good at that, not quite so good on the manual side.
We shall soon see, won't we? I am excited to see if they can pull this off, nit least because I have two of those III's reserved.
Oh... I have exactly zero doubts that they will get there, and that it will be cost effective. I've seen their plant and was very impressed with their level of automation. The original debate was about whether new cells, in the event of a shortage, would go the S or the 3. My argument is that the S/X is a mature product with solid margins. Whereas the 3 is (likely) lower margin, and during ramp-up, zero or negative margin. I believe that S/X will take priority for very simple financial reasons.
No one knows. They don't even know for sure if there will be a "new suspension". You are reading speculation.
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Zaphod
Galaxy President (former)
I don't understand why they would switch to electromagnetic suspension, unless it would be an additional option, like the + package was.
The air suspension can raise and lower, which is good selling point as it helps with ground clearance as well as aero improvements when lowered. Electromagnetic suspension can't raise or lower, it will just adjust to stiffness. I have it on my Audi and is nice.
The air suspension can raise and lower, which is good selling point as it helps with ground clearance as well as aero improvements when lowered. Electromagnetic suspension can't raise or lower, it will just adjust to stiffness. I have it on my Audi and is nice.
Tam
Well-Known Member
The video says that Mustang MagnetoRheological Suspension has 5 modes including "Drag Racing" which raises the nose up at the start line and settles down as you speed up.
That sounds like MagnetoRheological Suspension is capable of height adjustments if an engineer wants to design that.
My DS informed me today that I could already order an upgrade on my 90D to 100D. Though she was not sure if the car would be delivered with a 100kwt battery or if it would be upgraded after delivery. Will have more info on this later.
My question is then if I should upgrade to the 100, since I might get a SW limited 100kwt (to 90) battery in the first place? Would be sweet to get a SW limited 90kwt battery.
Or do they have to make significant changes to the battery. Dont know how they do it on the P90D that gets upgraded to P100D today.
My question is then if I should upgrade to the 100, since I might get a SW limited 100kwt (to 90) battery in the first place? Would be sweet to get a SW limited 90kwt battery.
Or do they have to make significant changes to the battery. Dont know how they do it on the P90D that gets upgraded to P100D today.
I would double check on that. I'm quite sure that your DS has made an error. Certainly you can't order an upgrade to a vehicle that's not been announced. But further, the DSs aren't given much more information that what the general public has.
I would not assume that Tesla employee is correct. As @sandpiper pointed out, it is highly unlikely that someone who has placed an order would then be allowed to change their configuration to include an option that Tesla has not yet announced.
And that is even more unlikely to be true. When the 100kWh battery was introduced Elon commented on how challenging it was to manufacture and that supplies were limited. The 90 came first. It is clearly not a software limited 100.
I tend to be suspicious about what DS could say but in Switzerland one DS told me early September about the foldable seats that was unveil two month later! He even told me that it would be a bench! So they sometimes knew something early.
Let's hope...
It's what I'm waiting to "upgrade" from the S (to the X), but if I can't get unlimited SC, I may give up and stay with the S for a while.
Let's hope...
It's what I'm waiting to "upgrade" from the S (to the X), but if I can't get unlimited SC, I may give up and stay with the S for a while.
Tesla staff (stores, service centers, phone) are always helpful, but often a poor source of information on what's coming.
Though for a car being delivered in March, it seems likely that 100D may be available before then - though we're going to wait to place our order until 100D has been officially announced.
Though for a car being delivered in March, it seems likely that 100D may be available before then - though we're going to wait to place our order until 100D has been officially announced.
Very, very unlikely. The rumors about this kind of suspension and Tesla started with a Tesla fan saying "wouldn't it be nice if..." I have seen no evidence Tesla is working on this and resources are focused completely on the Model 3 as the first priority with Tesla energy getting 2nd highest priority. The main focus for Model S and X right now are fixing problems, cost reduction, and any new features are things things that are relatively minor and have been rumored for a while like the folding second row seats on the X or technologies that will be introduced on the 3 such as the new battery cooling tech in the 100 KWh battery.
Elon has said the S and X will get new tech before the 3 and will be the test bed for these things. They may introduce an electromagnetic suspension at some point, but I would not expect it until the Model 3 production is stable. Probably 2018 at the earliest. Introducing a new suspension requires changes to the production line and all the industrial engineers at Fremont are focused on getting the production lines for the Model 3 working. Changes like a new battery pack or new back seats is a minor production line change that doesn't require much input from the production line engineering staff.
With an electric car electromagnetic suspension has the advantage of taking the energy that is dissipated by heat now and turning it into electricity that goes into the battery. It wouldn't be much, but every little bit helps. The trade off, which may not be worth it is the equipment to capture this energy will add cost and weight and the energy gained may be too little to be worth it.
I also suspect an electromagnetic suspension would likely last longer than an air suspension. There are fewer moving parts in contact with one another that can wear out.
Actually it is worth it since one of the problems with electromagnetic suspension is that it is power hungry. There is already one that "exists" that uses regenerative suspension so that the net power usage is minimal. ClearMotion It looks impressive, and I would love to see it as an option in Teslas.
Noticed today that deliveries for new orders have pushed out from December to February.
I've been checking the Model S order page periodically as we wait for the 100D to be listed - and had hoped that if Tesla began accepting orders for the 100D soon, we'd still be able to get unlimited free long distance.
But if new orders are already slotted for February delivery (a 2 month change in the last few days), seems less likely now that even if Tesla began accepting 100D orders, that they could be delivering the non-performance cars before the end of March.
Though, Tesla really should reconsider the "order by December/deliver by March" policy - because the delivery is out of control by the customer...
Why did deliveries push out 2 months?
I've been checking the Model S order page periodically as we wait for the 100D to be listed - and had hoped that if Tesla began accepting orders for the 100D soon, we'd still be able to get unlimited free long distance.
But if new orders are already slotted for February delivery (a 2 month change in the last few days), seems less likely now that even if Tesla began accepting 100D orders, that they could be delivering the non-performance cars before the end of March.
Though, Tesla really should reconsider the "order by December/deliver by March" policy - because the delivery is out of control by the customer...
Why did deliveries push out 2 months?
Elon said the car needs to be ordered by Dec 31 to get the free supercharging. I think they also require delivery by the end of March or something like that. I expect a lot of people will be ordering the last week of the year delaying as long as possible hoping to get the 100D with free supercharging.
It partly depends on where you are located as the first month of production every quarter is usually almost always international deliveries.
But I'm sure another part of it is that people are rushing to get in on the free unlimited Supercharging and filling up the production queue.
