I believe it is illegal and Tesla service sucks its like we are customers at a local used car dealer. Totally not the LUXURY BRAND car I brought in 2014.
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$175 "diagnosis fee" on warranty work?
- Thread starter UThomas
- Start date
I believe it is illegal and Tesla service sucks its like we are customers at a local used car dealer. Totally not the LUXURY BRAND car I brought in 2014.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
We've had two Tesla Model 3's since 2018. One has been flawless (Model 3 Performance) but my wife's car threw an error message saying there was a problem with the driver's seatbelt tensioning system. This is a pyrotechnic device that tightens the seatbelt automatically in the first few milliseconds of an impact serious enough to activate the airbags and is designed to reduce potential injury from airbag deployment.
In this case, Tesla didn't warn us of any diagnostic fee because the car itself notified us of the issue. Even if an investigation revealed it was a false alarm, Tesla would cover the resetting of the error code as a warranty item so there is no ambiguity.
The diagnostic fee might come into play if the owner reports an aggravating rattle. This may or may not be a warranty item depending upon what's causing the rattle. I used to own a Volvo and one of the members of one of the Volvo owner's forums was complaining that Volvo wanted to charge an hourly rate to track down the rattle. The dealer said if it was a warranty item the owner would not need to pay the charge but, if it was non-warranty, then the owner would be on the hook for diagnosing the rattle. This really pissed off the owner and he claimed it was illegal, yadda, yadda, yadda. In the end, he had to agree to the possible charge to get the dealership to diagnose the rattle. It turns out the rattle was caused by some sunglasses the owner had left in one of the compartments! They charged him for 1/4 hour and retrieved his sunglasses. The owner was really embarrassed about the huge stink he had made over what turned out to be his own forgetfulness.
As you can see, there is a valid reason why this type of diagnosis fee does not violate warranty laws nor common sense. The dealers need to protect themselves against unreasonable demands. I mean, why should the dealership pay salaries, benefits, employee taxes, advanced training for their technicians, etc. just to take care of forgetful buyers? They would have to pass those costs onto all their customers, even the non-forgetful ones.
At some point, people need to take responsibility for their own actions! It's completely legitimate for shops to pass on non-warranty diagnosis work to their customers. Only if it turns out to be a fault of the car does the diagnosis fall under warranty coverage.
In this case, Tesla didn't warn us of any diagnostic fee because the car itself notified us of the issue. Even if an investigation revealed it was a false alarm, Tesla would cover the resetting of the error code as a warranty item so there is no ambiguity.
The diagnostic fee might come into play if the owner reports an aggravating rattle. This may or may not be a warranty item depending upon what's causing the rattle. I used to own a Volvo and one of the members of one of the Volvo owner's forums was complaining that Volvo wanted to charge an hourly rate to track down the rattle. The dealer said if it was a warranty item the owner would not need to pay the charge but, if it was non-warranty, then the owner would be on the hook for diagnosing the rattle. This really pissed off the owner and he claimed it was illegal, yadda, yadda, yadda. In the end, he had to agree to the possible charge to get the dealership to diagnose the rattle. It turns out the rattle was caused by some sunglasses the owner had left in one of the compartments! They charged him for 1/4 hour and retrieved his sunglasses. The owner was really embarrassed about the huge stink he had made over what turned out to be his own forgetfulness.
As you can see, there is a valid reason why this type of diagnosis fee does not violate warranty laws nor common sense. The dealers need to protect themselves against unreasonable demands. I mean, why should the dealership pay salaries, benefits, employee taxes, advanced training for their technicians, etc. just to take care of forgetful buyers? They would have to pass those costs onto all their customers, even the non-forgetful ones.
At some point, people need to take responsibility for their own actions! It's completely legitimate for shops to pass on non-warranty diagnosis work to their customers. Only if it turns out to be a fault of the car does the diagnosis fall under warranty coverage.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Good example of a clear "pilot error" issue you witnessed. I will counter you with another one I witnessed. I was sitting in the service center while waiting for Tesla to graciously fix (as good will service) the yellowing screen on my wife's barely over 1 year old Model S (it yellowed earlier, but they refused to fix it for a while). Next to me was a frustrated Model 3 owner who was having some issues with the car's computer misbehaving. He even brought a cell phone video to show the service folks. I listened how the service advisor explained to he M3 owner that they acknowledge that the video shows a problem, however since they were unable to reproduce it in the shop, that they should be charging him $175 for diagnostics. "Good news" was that this was only his second time in, so they will waive the fee, but if he brings it in any more times without a reliable way to reproduce it, they will be charging him. The official suggestion was to wait until the problem happens very often so service can reproduce it easily.
While I understand that it can be really hard to fix if you cannot reproduce a problem, how it this the customer's fault? Not to mention that if you have a problem and have to make an appointment on the app, chances are the problem will go away before your appointment is booked few days later. What Tesla should be doing is swapping possible faulty parts and have the owner come back with another video if it happens again, then swap more parts, until it's fixed. Alternatively, swap the entire car if they cannot figure out what's wrong with it. Yea, I get it's expensive for Tesla to do that, but if they make a product with intermittent issues which are too hard to diagnose, they still need to support it, rather than drive customers away by threatening to charge them diagnostics.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
At best your anecdotal experience is not consistently applied, like so many things Tesla.
I’ve personally experienced the same situation, car sporadically throwing error messages that I provided photo and video documentation of, and had to fight repeatedly to get this “diagnostic fee” removed from estimates.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
My BMW i3 BEV wouldn't DC fast-charge because the charge port wasn't locking (apparently it's a safety issue with DC). The error message specifically said it wouldn't charge because of this locking problem. I even searched online and found others with the same issue.
The car was less than 3-years old so still under warranty.
I called the local BMW dealer to make an appointment and they told me I would be charged a $175 diagnosis fee even though it was clear what the problem was. They would not agree to waive that fee, even if it was indeed the problem.
I guess this is becoming common practice. I have never heard of this prior.
The car was less than 3-years old so still under warranty.
I called the local BMW dealer to make an appointment and they told me I would be charged a $175 diagnosis fee even though it was clear what the problem was. They would not agree to waive that fee, even if it was indeed the problem.
I guess this is becoming common practice. I have never heard of this prior.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I'm sure their lawyers will tell you that you won't find anywhere in the warranty text that all diagnostics are covered. They've gotten really good at this over the years.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
It can.
If it’s a warranty issue, the diag fee is waived. If it’s not a warranty issue, you’ve used their time for a non-covered diagnosis, so they’re charging you for it
Going through this right now; Tesla wants to charge me a bunch of diag fees for stuff. I get why they do it, and some of them are reasonable because I'm nit-picking before the warranty expires, but others are not (eg, backup camera diagnosis fee).
Regardless, they wanted me to sign an acknowledgement before dropping my car off. I'm not signing a damn thing.
I'm happy to talk in person. Should take us all of 5-10 minutes to go over the things I want looked at, and they can tell me which ones are likely to be covered by warranty and which are not. Then I can decide if it's worth paying for diagnosis on the smaller things.
Wish I had known about the "10,000 mile limit" on fit and finish things I overlooked for the first few years.
Regardless, they wanted me to sign an acknowledgement before dropping my car off. I'm not signing a damn thing.
I'm happy to talk in person. Should take us all of 5-10 minutes to go over the things I want looked at, and they can tell me which ones are likely to be covered by warranty and which are not. Then I can decide if it's worth paying for diagnosis on the smaller things.
Wish I had known about the "10,000 mile limit" on fit and finish things I overlooked for the first few years.
Maybe I can add some thoughts about this issue that no one has brought up yet. Tesla is in constant communication of all of their vehicles that are in operations. They have the data of ever little glitch. There is no way that they cannot know. In the early days you could call Tesla a get a person in customer service. They would pull the logs, diagnose the problem and sometimes send and update of reset the software while you are on the phone with them. If they were not successful they would create a service ticket and recommend a visit to a service center. I am highly doubtful that Tesla doesn't know everything that is going on with their vehicles at all times. They are constantly pulling the data.
I’m in a similar boat. I’ve gone through this entire thread and also got a good feel for those who are and aren’t in favor of Tesla ripping off their customers by charging this fees. To them, unless they are posturing, I have one message - don’t be a doormat- demand more in life and stand up for what is right.
This can definitely be used as a scare tactic by Tesla to prevent people from playing the bet of taking their cars for what could eventually turn out to be valid warranty work. Customers may just decide to live with the problem. If this works in successfully scaring off even 10% of the customers, well that a significant win for Tesla:
1) 10% less service personnel overhead
2) 10% of legit problems won’t need warranty repairs- cost savings
I’ve dropped off my model S for MCU upgrade and also a couple of items of “diagnostics” nature. One of the items is “high acceleration shudder”. I could demonstrate the issue to the tech. His explanation was vague that this is normal for a fast car. WTF?? I tried to mention about the recent service bulletin but they would not even listen. At this point the way I see is that it’s a double win for Tesla to not accept this issue: 1) get to charge me the diagnostic fees 2) not resolve a valid problem under warranty.
I will wait for them to decide how they want to proceed on this. They asked me to sign the estimate form with the diagnostic fees and I have not. My car is with them
I really wonder how they are getting away with this. In all these years of owning different car brands, I’ve never had to deal with this kind of sh!t. There are always going to be a few false alarms from some customers- as a car manufacturer you should have data for that sort of thing and you price that into your car’s selling cost for the factory warranty. Period.
(just like lenders know that there are some percentage of bad borrowers and their business model has built in buffer for writing off some bad debt)
Edit: in my above rant I forgot to mention that I really empathize with the Tesla service folks. They are ordinary folks just doing their job and what they are being told by the greedy management. Having to deal with explaining their company’s crap policies to irate customers is not easy.
This can definitely be used as a scare tactic by Tesla to prevent people from playing the bet of taking their cars for what could eventually turn out to be valid warranty work. Customers may just decide to live with the problem. If this works in successfully scaring off even 10% of the customers, well that a significant win for Tesla:
1) 10% less service personnel overhead
2) 10% of legit problems won’t need warranty repairs- cost savings
I’ve dropped off my model S for MCU upgrade and also a couple of items of “diagnostics” nature. One of the items is “high acceleration shudder”. I could demonstrate the issue to the tech. His explanation was vague that this is normal for a fast car. WTF?? I tried to mention about the recent service bulletin but they would not even listen. At this point the way I see is that it’s a double win for Tesla to not accept this issue: 1) get to charge me the diagnostic fees 2) not resolve a valid problem under warranty.
I will wait for them to decide how they want to proceed on this. They asked me to sign the estimate form with the diagnostic fees and I have not. My car is with them
I really wonder how they are getting away with this. In all these years of owning different car brands, I’ve never had to deal with this kind of sh!t. There are always going to be a few false alarms from some customers- as a car manufacturer you should have data for that sort of thing and you price that into your car’s selling cost for the factory warranty. Period.
(just like lenders know that there are some percentage of bad borrowers and their business model has built in buffer for writing off some bad debt)
Edit: in my above rant I forgot to mention that I really empathize with the Tesla service folks. They are ordinary folks just doing their job and what they are being told by the greedy management. Having to deal with explaining their company’s crap policies to irate customers is not easy.
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Can someone please point out where in the warranty is it mentioned that NVH issues would only be covered for the first 12,000 miles? I read through the warranty and don’t see that. I have a 2017 Model S. Did they introduce this change after 2017? If so, should the original warranty, during purchase not apply?(unless they reserve the right to change warranty terms itself which would be very difficult to believe)
In the EU (Germany), the practice of charging a "diagnostic fee" during the warranty period was deemed illegal after court trials. Although the court decision applied to some computer repair, and not to cars, the reasoning would apply here as well: The fee obstructs the owner in exercising his right for a warranty repair by putting up an illegal obstacle. Hence any diagnostic work has to be done free of any charge (but, of course, not the repair itself if not covered by the warranty).
It helps to think in extremes here: a "diagnostic fee" of a Million Dollars would probably waive all warranty issues for a company.
It helps to think in extremes here: a "diagnostic fee" of a Million Dollars would probably waive all warranty issues for a company.
I am confident this practice would also be found to be illegal in the US if/when it makes its way to a court of law. Hopefully, this will find its way into a class action suit in the US to force them to stop the practice soon. No other manufacturer conducts this deceitful and uncalled-for practice. I always respond "not approved" and never accept the estimate or invoice. I force the in-person conversation with the Foreman and get the fees removed. That said it's exhausting and infuriating as they try this stunt every time there is a warranty issue (and my 2018 DMM3 has a lot of them). In each case, Tesla has had to replace defective parts due to defects and under the 4yr/50K warranty. It is unfortunate, but I suspect the number of people that are presented with and end up paying these bogus fees is probably pretty large. As a result, going to the Tesla service center is the most painful and stressful process in the industry. by far.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Plenty do. Just one of countless examples:
Are diagnostic charges covered by Ford Protect?
Do I have to pay a diagnostic charge for a covered repair? The answer is always cut and dry.
www.lombardfordwarrantys.com
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