$175 "diagnosis fee" on warranty work?

[mongo]

I believe this is a violation of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. They are adding requirements to obtain a remedy under the act. While they waive the fee for warranty work, that is unknown to the warranty owner. That uncertainty cost cannot be passed onto a consumer. Tesla must eat that. The Act explicitly prohibits placing any duty upon the owner "other than notification of the defect." They are also prohibited from a variety of other tactics to deter or encourage the use of their service staff vs. other repair technicians. 15 U.S.C. §2302(c).

All new buyers have already paid for that service (Tesla prices that into the new car sale price). Tesla cannot offer a "full" warranty under the Act and have such a fee. They can only treat people without warranties like this (and the market can decide whether Tesla service is worthwhile).

I think you are conflating the two possibilities:
1. There is a true warranty issue "defect", in which case there is no charge (nor was there an up front charge) to the customer.
2. There is not a warranty issue no "defect", in which case the is nothing covered under the warranty, and the customer gets charged for the fix and diagnostic time.

There is no reason a manufacture should eat the cost of diagnosing a non warranty problem. For instance, if drive line noise turned out to be a bad tire and not a bad drive unit there is no "defect", and no onus on Tesla.

 

[croman]

I think you are conflating the two possibilities:
1. There is a true warranty issue "defect", in which case there is no charge (nor was there an up front charge) to the customer.
2. There is not a warranty issue no "defect", in which case the is nothing covered under the warranty, and the customer gets charged for the fix and diagnostic time.

There is no reason a manufacture should eat the cost of diagnosing a non warranty problem. For instance, if drive line noise turned out to be a bad tire and not a bad drive unit there is no "defect", and no onus on Tesla.

Yes, but the cost of the diagnosis legally lies with the manufacturer during the original warranty period. They can charge the customer to fix but not diagnose until they KNOW and can PROVE that it is not covered by warranty.

Tesla's burden shift is illegal. Nice try defending Tesla. You sure do work hard for a non-owner.

 

[StealthP3D]

Yes, but the cost of the diagnosis legally lies with the manufacturer during the original warranty period. They can charge the customer to fix but not diagnose until they KNOW and can PROVE that it is not covered by warranty.

No. I don't care if it's a Ford, GMC, Toyota or Tesla, then you could have irate customers making manufacturers jump through hoop after hoop to prove the owner is crazy. There would be no end to it for some people. Warranties only cover warranteed items, not anything the owner thinks should be or might be a warranteed item. There is a thread going on right now with an owner arguing with Tesla that his degraded battery on his 239,000 mile Model S should be replaced under warranty. But he refuses to accept their determination that it is simply battery degradation due to how it was used/charged. And he refuses to use the no-cost arbitration process set up to resolve these types of disputes. But he continues to badmouth Tesla as not honoring their warranty.

Tesla's burden shift is illegal. Nice try defending Tesla. You sure do work hard for a non-owner.

That's uncalled for! He has just as much right to share his opinion as you do. Are you an attorney working in the area of warranty law? Because it doesn't sound like it.

 

[PhilDavid]

$175 is the hourly shop rate at my service center. That may be what the phone person was referring to and they just stated it wrong, hopefully. The e-mail received by the other person seems to confirm that.

Overall, I think it is poor customer service and may backfire on them in the long run. I get that they are in “service hell”, but adding friction for the customer on top of an already frustrating and bad customer service experience is just not the right way to fix the problem.

I've never had a car dealer threaten me with a "diagnostic fee" when I took any of my previous cars in for service while that car was under warranty. Now out of warranty, sure, but never while the car was under warranty.

Tesla makes the best cars available to buy but I honestly wish I could go to a regular car dealer for both sales and service.

 

[mongo]

Yes, but the cost of the diagnosis legally lies with the manufacturer during the original warranty period.

For warranty items.

They can charge the customer to fix but not diagnose until they KNOW and can PROVE that it is not covered by warranty.

Right, and they DON'T charge them until AFTER it is diagnosed as a non-warranty item. From up-thread:

"Our technicians would require time to inspect the vehicle to verify the symptom and then they will present repair options. Our labor rate is $175.00/hour and if any additional labor time is necessary, the service team will let you know. If the root cause of the issue is found to be covered under the Tesla new vehicle limited warranty, the inspection labor will not be charged to you.

Tesla's burden shift is illegal.

No shift, if it was a defect, no charge, if it was not a defect: charge.

Nice try defending Tesla.

This has nothing to do with Tesla specifically, this is common sense. If I bring my car in with a complaint, and the specific issue is not under warranty, I should be billed. A warranty is not a blank check for free diagnostics.

You sure do work hard for a non-owner.

Full disclosure: I'm long TSLA.

 

[croman]

Sure, lets just ignore the law and make it up. It is the Tesla way!

 

[UThomas]

"then you could have irate customers making manufacturers jump through hoop after hoop to prove the owner is crazy. There would be no end to it for some people. Warranties only cover warranteed items, not anything the owner thinks should be or might be a warranteed item"

As best I can tell that absolutely happens all the time for every manufacturer. There a different (positive) incentives as another poster pointed out for dealers to take warranty work depending on the make though.

Lots of good discussion here. Of note, this isn't a generic "my car has high wind noise" or "I think this wear item is wearing early" - these are known defects that have had large amounts of reported issues and probably have an internal service bulletin. Its also clearly a change in Tesla policy (this is my 2nd S). We'll see how it develops...

 

[mongo]

Sure, lets just ignore the law and make it up. It is the Tesla way!

Your "" text

The Act explicitly prohibits placing any duty upon the owner "other than notification of the defect."

does not appear on the page linked. Please state the section of 15 2302 you believe Tesla is violating by charging for non-warranty work as I cannot see anything that applies, including (c).

 

[croman]

Your "" text

does not appear on the page linked. Please state the section of 15 2302 you believe Tesla is violating by charging for non-warranty work as I cannot see anything that applies, including (c).

I could but I'd rather you point out where the law says Tesla can charge for diagnoses to determine whether a warranty repair is needed?

 

[mongo]

I could but I'd rather you point out where the law says Tesla can charge for diagnoses to determine whether a warranty repair is needed?

First, Tesla is only charging for labor in the event it is NOT a warranty issue.
Second, The US law system is permissive. Anything not deemed illegal is legal.

You stated or implied multiple times that Tesla is in violation of the law, please provide a link to where it states that Tesla, or any other brand, cannot charge for labor involved in diagnosing a non-warranty issue. We already know, from your linked law, that they can charge for diagnosing a warranty issue, if that is stipulated in the warranty.

(a)(5)A statement of what the consumer must do and expenses he must bear.

 

[markb1]

Is it still within the bumper-to-bumper warranty, or just the driver unit/battery warranty? If it's the former, it seems like the diagnosis fee should be covered, because whatever the root cause of the problem, it will almost certainly be a warranty item. If it's the latter, the diagnosis is needed to determine if it's a covered part or not.

 

[croman]

First, Tesla is only charging for labor in the event it is NOT a warranty issue.
Second, The US law system is permissive. Anything not deemed illegal is legal.

You stated or implied multiple times that Tesla is in violation of the law, please provide a link to where it states that Tesla, or any other brand, cannot charge for labor involved in diagnosing a non-warranty issue. We already know, from your linked law, that they can charge for diagnosing a warranty issue, if that is stipulated in the warranty.

Just read the law.

Duty to install under a full warranty.
Under section 104(a)(1) of the Act, 15 U.S.C. 2304(a)(1), the remedy under a full warranty must be provided to the consumer without charge. If the warranted product has utility only when installed, a full warranty must provide such installation without charge regardless of whether or not the consumer originally paid for installation by the warrantor or his agent.

Use of warranty registration cards.(a) Under section 104(b)(1) of the Act, 15 U.S.C. 2304(b)(1), a warrantor offering a full warranty may not impose on consumers any duty other than notification of a defect as a condition of securing remedy of the defect or malfunction

By contrast, a limited warranty, does allow for a warrantor to charge.

Now, somehow you think its OK that Tesla puts the burden of the potential cost of diagnosis on the owner (who paid for a full warranty)? No, sorry, that flies in the face of the entire law. Forget about a particular section. The law is intended to stop this kind of overburdening of consumers by fraudulent companies that say they provide a warranty but its not worth the paper its printed on. That cost of diagnosis, to determine whether it is a valid warranty claim, is on Tesla. After they make that determination, fine they can inform the consumer the issue is not covered by warranty and here is what further diagnosis or repair will cost. That's not what is happening here.

 

[Darren Donovan]

That sounds just like a.....conventional shady car dealer.

Funny thing is, those "evil legacy dealers" never pulled any BS like that on me.

And, if this particular's service center's tactic worked, meaning OP doesn't want to pay the money to have his car checked out, and if those issues materialize after the warranty is out, Tesla will stand to make lots more money. Win-Win: for Tesla.

 

[mongo]

Just read the law.

Duty to install under a full warranty.
Under section 104(a)(1) of the Act, 15 U.S.C. 2304(a)(1), the remedy under a full warranty must be provided to the consumer without charge. If the warranted product has utility only when installed, a full warranty must provide such installation without charge regardless of whether or not the consumer originally paid for installation by the warrantor or his agent.

Use of warranty registration cards.(a) Under section 104(b)(1) of the Act, 15 U.S.C. 2304(b)(1), a warrantor offering a full warranty may not impose on consumers any duty other than notification of a defect as a condition of securing remedy of the defect or malfunction

By contrast, a limited warranty, does allow for a warrantor to charge.
[/QUOTE]
2304(a)(1) refers to actions the customer must take to make the warranty active. In common terms, sending in the warranty registration card is not required for a warranty to be active. This has no bearing on whether there is a charge for warranty work see 2302(a)(5) which I mentioned previously.

(5)A statement of what the consumer must do and expenses he must bear.

Now, somehow you think its OK that Tesla puts the burden of the potential cost of diagnosis on the owner (who paid for a full warranty)? No, sorry, that flies in the face of the entire law. Forget about a particular section. The law is intended to stop this kind of overburdening of consumers by fraudulent companies that say they provide a warranty but its not worth the paper its printed on. That cost of diagnosis, to determine whether it is a valid warranty claim, is on Tesla. After they make that determination, fine they can inform the consumer the issue is not covered by warranty and here is what further diagnosis or repair will cost. That's not what is happening here.

There is zero potential cost for diagnosis of a warranty item. The only cost a customer would incur is if the issue was a non-warranty issue.

2304

(d) Remedy without charge For purposes of this section and of section 2302(c) of this title, the term “without charge” means that the warrantor may not assess the consumer for any costs the warrantor or his representatives incur in connection with the required remedy of a warranted consumer product.

No charges for a fix of a warranty problem. However, there is no protection for a non-warranty problem.

I don't know how to make this more clear.
You have an issue with your car.
You drop off your car
They investigate
If it is a warranty item, you are not charged anything, nor was there an up front payment, no burden to the consumer.
If it is a non-warranty item, they call to see if you want it fixed and give a cost estimate. Even if you don't fix it, you get charged for their time diagnosing the problem (unless they good will it).

 

[Alset4S]

During the initial 4yr/50,000 mile warranty what would not be covered? Seems to me if it's a bumper to bumper warranty the answer should be nothing.

So no cost to owner. But what if the diagnosis is nothing wrong except maybe in the mind of the oowner. Should Tesla bare the cost of diagnosing imaginary problems?

 

[Mikes68charger]

During the initial 4yr/50,000 mile warranty what would not be covered? Seems to me if it's a bumper to bumper warranty the answer should be nothing.

So no cost to owner. But what if the diagnosis is nothing wrong except maybe in the mind of the oowner. Should Tesla bare the cost of diagnosing imaginary problems?

The issue is, who has had an issue a mechanic can't duplicate? Should you really be charged

 

[Az_Rael]

The issue is, who has had an issue a mechanic can't duplicate? Should you really be charged

100% this. I had my HPWC charge cable lock in my charge port and had to be released with the mechanical pull. It was 60 degrees and in my dry garage, so not the cold issue. The charge port door is also "sticky" in that it hesitates pretty frequently when opening almost like it isn't going to open. They have repaired my charge port door twice already, so these new behaviors were concerning and I brought the car in.

Take it in to the SC, and they couldn't get either issue to duplicate. So I am waiting the charge port door out now. But if they had tried to charge me $175 for that I would have been pretty hot.

 

[brkaus]

Funny thing is, those "evil legacy dealers" never pulled any BS like that on me.

And, if this particular's service center's tactic worked, meaning OP doesn't want to pay the money to have his car checked out, and if those issues materialize after the warranty is out, Tesla will stand to make lots more money. Win-Win: for Tesla.

BMW pulled all sorts of bs on me. Eventually the dealer sold out and things got a bit better.

 

[bro1999]

Funny thing is, those "evil legacy dealers" never pulled any BS like that on me.

And, if this particular's service center's tactic worked, meaning OP doesn't want to pay the money to have his car checked out, and if those issues materialize after the warranty is out, Tesla will stand to make lots more money. Win-Win: for Tesla.

I've had the "it'll cost $150 to diagnose IF it turns out not to be a warranty item" line given to me, but that was for warranty claims outside the b2b warranty (power train warranty etc). I have to clarify that I've never had a dealer tell me that I may need to pay a diagnosis fee while my vehicle was still under the b2b warranty.

 

[Ciaopec]

Just called up as my P85+ is about 6 months and 2500 miles from being out of the factory warranty. I was informed for the notorious drive unit whine and the rear tail lights harvesting rain water issue (which I had already had addressed once @ 15k miles) that they were charging $175 fee to diagnosis it IF they decide it isn't an issue. Apparently this is a new policy. Anybody else heard of this? I thought it was crazy...

Thomas

I took my 2016 (refresh) 90D in for both headlights to be replaced ( eyebrow lights failed again) and wanted front motor whine checked before warranty end and was told of the fee. I waffled and waited. A month or so later took it to a different service center to cover a few issues before warranty end date and also wanted the whine checked. Before this service center took the car in I went for a "pre-service" check with an experienced tech whose only job was to prescreen service issues. He said my whine was normal but was somewhat more noticeable because I was driving in range mode. This puts more of the torque burden not the front drive unit; when we took it out of range mode the noise subsided but was still there. I took his word that this was not one of the three things for which they replace the drive unit.

Oh, and no charge at this service center for the diagnosis nor was it ever mentioned.