18 vs 19 inch wheels? Help please

[Adman2298]

If you want performance then the all seasons are crap.

They call them all seasons beause they suck- in all seasons.

Above 40 degrees summer tires will stop shorter, accelerate better, and handle better 100% of the time.

Yes they do probably wear out faster than mediocre all seasons- but I'll take significantly better stopping distance, handling, and acceleration over having crap tires that last longer ever time.

Below 40 degrees winter tires beat all seasons at everything too.

Whenever folks test all 3 types the all seasons come in 2nd or 3rd at basically everything in every condition.

Again...For my purposes of creating a commuter set of wheels and tires that give you all around performance, and longevity, the P Zero All Season tires are tops in the category. I don't disagree that summer/performance tires are better but if you are going that route...why would you not buy the best! Michelin Pilot Super Sport! Period, best summer performance tire hands down! BUT...you will get 20K miles or less depending on the setup and how aggressively you drive! Hopefully, we can end the debate...it's not even a debate...it's a performance tire vs a commuter tire.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Knightshade]

I don't disagree that summer/performance tires are better but if you are going that route...why would you not buy the best! Michelin Pilot Super Sport! Period, best summer performance tire hands down! BUT...you will get 20K miles or less depending on the setup and how aggressively you drive!

That is exactly what I do.

In fact the Michelin PSS is what is on my current car (and the top-end Mich performance model has been on it since I first swapped out the factory tires after buying it new), and what will be going on the 18" aeros as soon after I take delivery of my model 3 as I can arrange the swap.

I care a lot more about things like stopping distance and handling than how often I have to replace the tires, that's despite having a pretty decently long commute to work.

 

[dhrivnak]

That is exactly what I do.

In fact the Michelin PSS is what is on my current car (and the top-end Mich performance model has been on it since I first swapped out the factory tires after buying it new), and what will be going on the 18" aeros as soon after I take delivery of my model 3 as I can arrange the swap.

I care a lot more about things like stopping distance and handling than how often I have to replace the tires, that's despite having a pretty decently long commute to work.

And I am in the other boat as buying tires is a hassle and the Pilot Super Sports ar terrible in snow a situation we see a few times a year. I also like the fact the 18” all season get about 5% more range.

 

[csphili]

I'm getting the 18's for sure. $.02

 

[TT97]

I am planning on getting summer tires once the current set wears out (or get impatient). I had summer tires on my last two cars and the difference is night and day. If I ever see snow forecast for L.A., I'm just going to take a snow day and wait it out - my boss in NY keeps getting snow days, it's about time I get one too (granted, I usually head to the golf course for a twilight round when he is out due to snow).

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Pilot S4 is only for the 20" model. Not the 18".

TireRack sells the same Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tire in the 18 inch fitment for $210 verses $270 in the 19 inch fitment and $339 in the 20 inch fitment. If I lived in California this is the only tire I would consider with the ratings Tire Rack claims, and I would be saving my dollars by going with the 18's stock wheels.

 

[Stellavator]

Anyone know if you build a staggered setup, with some diameter differential front to back, would there be an issue with the AWD system? In other words, the more you stagger, the greater possible diameter differential, and does ther AWD system try to spin front and rear wheels the exact same speed?

 

[Adman2298]

TireRack sells the same Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tire in the 18 inch fitment for $210 verses $270 in the 19 inch fitment and $339 in the 20 inch fitment. If I lived in California this is the only tire I would consider with the ratings Tire Rack claims, and I would be saving my dollars by going with the 18's stock wheels.

View attachment 321261

But you totally lose the cool factor and look of staggered wheels? What's the point of skinny 18's in a performance tire? I am perfectly content with my 19" staggered setup and using the all season, quieter, better ride quality Pirelli, has been great so far. I commute 90 miles per day and have 6,500 miles on this setup so far and it is working out great. I am not losing that much range, if at all.

To each his own and if I was not commuting so much on LA freeways that absolutely are terrible, I would have 20's with PSS but too many of my friends have popped their 21" turbines on their MS cars so I am perfectly content with my setup. Their is a video of a guy doing a track day testing out a model 3...his setup...19" staggered.

Good luck and that is why this is so much fun...seeing how everybody customizes their own car. I'm sure there is more to come but I will update again later.

Chow!

 

[Knightshade]

But you totally lose the cool factor and look of staggered wheels? What's the point of skinny 18's in a performance tire? I am perfectly content with my 19" staggered setup and using the all season, quieter, better ride quality Pirelli, has been great so far.

18" performance tires would offer better handling, acceleration, and most important to my mind, shorter stopping distance, than your all season tires.

All of which seem a lot more important when driving than how cool the tires look, but YMMV.

 

[Blue in NC]

TireRack sells the same Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tire in the 18 inch fitment for $210 verses $270 in the 19 inch fitment and $339 in the 20 inch fitment. If I lived in California this is the only tire I would consider with the ratings Tire Rack claims, and I would be saving my dollars by going with the 18's stock wheels.

View attachment 321261

FWIW, I haven't had the 4S Tires but I did have the A/S 3+ on my last car (BMW 328i) and found them to be a huge improvement. They were my favorite set of tires so far so I am sure the 4S are outstanding.

 

[Adman2298]

18" performance tires would offer better handling, acceleration, and most important to my mind, shorter stopping distance, than your all season tires.

All of which seem a lot more important when driving than how cool the tires look, but YMMV.

The wheel setup is what makes it look cool. The stock 18" square setup is far from cool and isn't helping you in any way putting new tires on the stock rim but you can do what you want to do. Mine is already done and I love it!

 

[Adman2298]

FWIW, I haven't had the 4S Tires but I did have the A/S 3+ on my last car (BMW 328i) and found them to be a huge improvement. They were my favorite set of tires so far so I am sure the 4S are outstanding.

Couldn't agree more...they work great for me and I want a 50,000 mile tire, not a 20,000 tire. Especially when I put 20,000 miles a year on the car!

 

[Knightshade]

The wheel setup is what makes it look cool. The stock 18" square setup is far from cool and isn't helping you in any way putting new tires on the stock rim but you can do what you want to do

What I want to do is follow the laws of physics, which state your post is factually inaccurate.

Sticker,wider, square summer performance tires on the stock rims absolutely do all the things I mention- and better than all seasons on your staggered rims will do them.

If you prioritize looks or treadlife over actual performance/capability/safety, that's totally your call.

 

[Adman2298]

What I want to do is follow the laws of physics, which state your post is factually inaccurate.

Sticker,wider, square summer performance tires on the stock rims absolutely do all the things I mention- and better than all seasons on your staggered rims will do them.

If you prioritize looks or treadlife over actual performance/capability/safety, that's totally your call.

Hit the track with your stockers and document it and I will do the same. You say a lot, but you have ZERO proof otherwise bro!

 

[Knightshade]

Hit the track with your stockers and document it and I will do the same. You say a lot, but you have ZERO proof otherwise bro!

Dude, this is basic physics. Stickier tires produce shorter stopping distance, quicker acceleration, and better handling.

Those are facts.

It's why performance tires exist.

All seasons come in 2nd or 3rd best behind summer and winter tires at every measurable task. They're a compromise in every sense of the word.

Lots of folks are happy with that compromise, because they don't like replacing tires more often, or they don't like swapping tires if they live someplace with real winter. But to deny what they're doing is compromising is to deny pretty basic science.

I'd suggest you read up on this stuff a bit more.

 

[Adman2298]

Dude, this is basic physics. Stickier tires produce shorter stopping distance, quicker acceleration, and better handling.

Those are facts.

It's why performance tires exist.

All seasons come in 2nd or 3rd best behind summer and winter tires at every measurable task. They're a compromise in every sense of the word.

Lots of folks are happy with that compromise, because they don't like replacing tires more often, or they don't like swapping tires if they live someplace with real winter. But to deny what they're doing is compromising is to deny pretty basic science.

I'd suggest you read up on this stuff a bit more.

Bro, it is all relative to what size etc. You wielding nonsense from NC is just plain silly. You have ZERO proof of what you are saying. If I am driving on a curvy road, sure, they will respond better. But you trying to convince me that 18" stock size wheels with PSS will do everything better than my staggered 19" with 275 rear and 245 front with AS+ is RIDICULOUS!!!!! The sizing alone improves everything WAY more than just tires compound alone. Get with the program BRO! I'm done with this nonsense. Watch the youtube video of the guy who took his Tesla 3 for the first track and see him driving with the stock 18's, then he added a staggered 19" just like mine then he removed some tuning and did a 3rd run. It progressively got better...because of the wheel setup alone, it improved dramatically. That is a REAL LIFE test, not you preaching physics. Do your homework please...nobody is saying that the PSS tire is not a better tire than any All Season tire, but you're preaching about tire alone and not the entire setup.

 

[Knightshade]

Bro, it is all relative to what size etc.

... what?

Giant compromise tires won't beat smaller stickier performance ones.

You wielding nonsense from NC is just plain silly. You have ZERO proof of what you are saying. If I am driving on a curvy road, sure, they will respond better. But you trying to convince me that 18" stock size wheels with PSS will do everything better than my staggered 19" with 275 rear and 245 front with AS+ is RIDICULOUS!!!!!

No, it's science. Maybe you've heard of it?

Especially since I said stock WHEELS, but wider TIRES. Re-read post 93 where I say that explicitly.

265/40-18 specifically are what will be going on my stock 18s.

So actually wider than yours in the front, nearly as wide in the back.

And much stickier tread on all 4.



As evidence of how crap all seasons are at everything compared to summers I present this-

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer

Edmunds tests the same car, but with summer, winter, and all season tires all from Michelin, in a variety of conditions.

The all seasons come in 2nd or 3rd in virtually every single test behind the correct tires for the season (or sometimes behind both other tires).

Stopping distance in snow vs winter tires is 28 feet longer for all seasons. Multiple car lengths longer.

Stopping distance in warm and wet conditions vs summer tires is 58 feet longer for all seasons (the winters came in 2nd).

Stopping distance in dry and warm conditions vs summer tires is "only" 11 feet worse for the all seasons- the least embarrasing result they manage in all the braking tests.


Handling? wet/winter the winters come in ahead of the all seasons on the skidpad...dry/warm the summers win though the gap is relatively small... but wet/warm? 0.81 summers, 0.65 all seasons in last place.

Acceleration? Wet/winter the all seasons are 4 seconds slower 0-60 than the winter tires... Wet/warm the all seasons are dead last place again 3.5 seconds slower than summer tires 0-60... dry/warm is the only place the all seasons don't embarras themselves, matching the summers.

 

[Adman2298]

... what?

Giant compromise tires won't beat smaller stickier performance ones.



No, it's science. Maybe you've heard of it?

Especially since I said stock WHEELS, but wider TIRES. Re-read post 93 where I say that explicitly.

265/40-18 specifically are what will be going on my stock 18s.

So actually wider than yours in the front, nearly as wide in the back.

And much stickier tread on all 4.



As evidence of how crap all seasons are at everything compared to summers I present this-

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer

Edmunds tests the same car, but with summer, winter, and all season tires all from Michelin, in a variety of conditions.

The all seasons come in 2nd or 3rd in virtually every single test behind the correct tires for the season (or sometimes behind both other tires).

Stopping distance in snow vs winter tires is 28 feet longer for all seasons. Multiple car lengths longer.

Stopping distance in warm and wet conditions vs summer tires is 58 feet longer for all seasons (the winters came in 2nd).

Stopping distance in dry and warm conditions vs summer tires is "only" 11 feet worse for the all seasons- the least embarrasing result they manage in all the braking tests.


Handling? wet/winter the winters come in ahead of the all seasons on the skidpad...dry/warm the summers win though the gap is relatively small... but wet/warm? 0.81 summers, 0.65 all seasons in last place.

Acceleration? Wet/winter the all seasons are 4 seconds slower 0-60 than the winter tires... Wet/warm the all seasons are dead last place again 3.5 seconds slower than summer tires 0-60... dry/warm is the only place the all seasons don't embarras themselves, matching the summers.

So you put tires that need a 9 or 9.5" rim on your stock 8.5" rim? 255 is max recommended so good luck with that setup. And now you want to quote the sales flyer for Michelin. Ok Boss...you win.

 

[Adman2298]

So you put tires that need a 9 or 9.5" rim on your stock 8.5" rim? 255 is max recommended so good luck with that setup. And now you want to quote the sales flyer for Michelin. Ok Boss...you win.

And FWIW, here's the link to the track day...

Watch the Tesla Model 3 On-Track With Upgrades

 

[Knightshade]

So you put tires that need a 9 or 9.5" rim on your stock 8.5" rim? 255 is max recommended so good luck with that setup.

Tons of folks run 265s on 8.5" rims. In that real world you're so fond of.

They not only work fine, they protect you against curb rash a little better too

And now you want to quote the sales flyer for Michelin. Ok Boss...you win.

... what?

I quoted the results of a scientific test done at a professional testing facility between all 3 tire types.

You know, exactly the evidence you asked for

Which also shows you're factually wrong.

How much evidence did you provide supporting your claims again? Ah, right... zero.