2017.46 3387a54 is out

[BinaryField]

This is a great idea. It's holiday season and charities are going to need all the help they can get. Whether $10 or $100 (or more, or less, or a donation of time/volunteering), I hope people choose to participate. Win or lose, this could turn into something (every year at this rate), and paying up is so easy now - just point and click.

I'll throw in $10, betting against new EAP feature introduction by 12/31. Does somebody from the community want to manage a pool?

 

[whitex]

Yep... I know people that do this, with my mom being one of them. In a vehicle that goes to full regen anytime you let off the accelerator, it will quickly make people sick. An ICE smooths out the power spikes caused by doing this, but even then, it's terrible for gas mileage and not a pleasant ride.

Not attacking your mom, but binary accelerator/brake driving can be dangerous especially if combined with slower reflexes. It also creates traffic jams during busy periods as people alternate between braking hard and accelerating. Coincidentally, many people under influence of alcohol and drugs also drive like this - it's indicative of diminished driving skill/capacity. In the old days of manual transmissions this used to be more apparent as clutch ON/OFF driving tends to make the car jump like a frog and often stall. Of course the elephant in the room is, at what point of diminished driving capacity should we keep people off public roads - whether the diminished capacity is due to lack of sleep, drugs, alcohol, or old age. With a large wave of baby boomers hitting the roads in their golden age, self driving cars can't come fast enough.

 

[oktane]

@EinSV Let’s get you some skin in the game. I’ll pay you what your AP1 car was worth in 11/2016 and you pay me what I paid for mine AP2 in 11/2016 and we swap cars. Then let’s see how much you praise EAP. Only then can you understand my disappointment.

 

[FlyingCookie]

Not attacking your mom, but binary accelerator/brake driving can be dangerous especially if combined with slower reflexes. It also creates traffic jams during busy periods as people alternate between braking hard and accelerating. Coincidentally, many people under influence of alcohol and drugs also drive like this - it's indicative of diminished driving skill/capacity. In the old days of manual transmissions this used to be more apparent as clutch ON/OFF driving tends to make the car jump like a frog and often stall. Of course the elephant in the room is, at what point of diminished driving capacity should we keep people off public roads - whether the diminished capacity is due to lack of sleep, drugs, alcohol, or old age. With a large wave of baby boomers hitting the roads in their golden age, self driving cars can't come fast enough.

Hey, you're just telling me what i've been telling her since before I got my license...

 

[calisnow]

This won't be short. If you have a short attention span or football to watch, skip to the last paragraph about what we actually agree upon.

Here we go:

Creating an almost completely false narrative and then railing against that would have made you a lot of money in politics these past couple of years.

Along with your other false claims, you falsely claim that I don't like AP1 *and* AP2, and yet conveniently ignore:

1. I have repeated noted that TACC is worth the price of the car. Autosteer, on the other hand, whether AP1 and especially with AP2 is not yet ready for prime time - and I'm being kind. See, if you had AP2, which you admit you do not (yet still are compulsively compelled to comment anyway), you could count the number of disengagements during a 10-minute trip on, say, Sepulveda Blvd through Los Angeles. Or any other non-highway road in an urban area.

2. I have repeatedly advocated that unless and until AP2 improves to at least meet, in part, the functionality shared in the 12/2016 video, the best bridge car for the next couple of years would be an AP1 car, ideally RWD for the full frunk instead of the microfrunk.

3. In fact, I am actively looking for an AP1 car similar to my last one to replace my AP2 car.

That's hardly railing against all of AP as you incorrectly yet conveniently assert in order to attempt to support your screed.

What I especially dislike about people that don't know what they're talking about and yet still misrepresent the current state of, for example, AP2, is that it misinforms new owners and does a disservice to the company. As a shareholder who is long TSLA - with plans to buy yet a THIRD Tesla (which will be an AP1 car to replace the current AP2 car) I find deliberately spun (and poorly at that) posts like yours particularly objectionable.

Let's be clear: AP2 is IN NO WAY at the level we were promised in 12/2016, 3/2017, 6/2017, or even today. Save the SINGLE use case that I've described multiple times in which AP2 is superior to AP1, AP2 is a colossal disappointment. Second only, perhaps, to the myopic fanbois who insist upon commenting without direct knowledge nor experience with AP2.

Others in the thread have already gently pointed out to you - oh, and as AP2 owners - that it has not met expectations. To which, in part, you reply:



Ya think? With just another "year or two" of development, eh? Gosh golly geewhillickers, Batman - I sure hope so, because the competition ain't sitting on their hands. It's worth noting that senior management has again touted the future functionality *that they already have in dev releases of the firmware*. Surely you are not suggesting it will take another TWO YEARS to deliver that to existing owners. Oh, my.

Yeah... thanks for playing. Not your best work.

Oh, and later in the thread after being gently called out for your entire post missing the mark (see below) your fallback is that you don't like nastiness? Really? After your screed? Wow. You're the one who poked your nose into my proposed bet post with calisnow, which I will get to shortly. How about this - don't act like a fanboi, and people won't suggest that you are a fanboi.





Yeah... about that honest part... opinion and perspective are poor substitutes for direct experience with both AP1 and AP2. Might want to reupholster that armchair. Oh, and, "improving at a rapid pace"? Compared to what - Gary the Snail? Perhaps you meant compared to AP1... um, nope. "Rapid pace". Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.

The ONLY thing upon which we agree is that we both love/loved our AP1 cars. I'd suggest you keep yours a wee bit longer. When AP2 catches up to the claims made in Amsterdam recently, not to mention the video disclosed A YEAR AGO and the forecasts from THREE YEARS AGO (stop sign and traffic light reaction from the 10/2014 event), then reality will match "opinion", "perspective", and wishful thinking. Which is when I will buy my FOURTH Tesla, thankyouverymuch.

Why are you being a dick and insulting the guy personally in your very first sentence? "...Short attention span...Football to watch..." Seriously - why are you a dick? EinSV isn't one of the forum jerks. He doesn't post much at all actually and when he does he simply makes his point. You return that with personal vitriol? What is wrong with you?

 

[calisnow]

@EinSV Let’s get you some skin in the game. I’ll pay you what your AP1 car was worth in 11/2016 and you pay me what I paid for mine AP2 in 11/2016 and we swap cars. Then let’s see how much you praise EAP. Only then can you understand my disappointment.

I still don't understand your disappointment and I have both.

Exhibit A above.



Exhibit B above.



No, actually you did not take the bet. You made a statement with 3 elements, received a bet for those 3 elements, retracted 2 of the 3 elements, offered to take exactly one-third or 33% of the bet, and *then* claimed to have taken the bet. For a few posts, anyway (see below), before applying what we in the business affectionately refer to as "weasel words".



This is a great idea. It's holiday season and charities are going to need all the help they can get. Whether $10 or $100 (or more, or less, or a donation of time/volunteering), I hope people choose to participate. Win or lose, this could turn into something (every year at this rate), and paying up is so easy now - just point and click.



Allllllllrighty then. In the space of a single thread, we have a statement with 3 parts, a bet for those 3 parts, a retrenchment to 1 part put forth as acceptance of the whole bet (not), and then the icing on the cake - all the ways he can win without delivering even the 1 part without a bunch of caveats (see disclaimers). They're gonna revoke yer TFC card if you keep that up.

Look. If this was for real money (or a real tattoo), I'd counter with $33 instead of $100 - and even that's generous, given the gutting of the terms.

However, I will still take the bet at the full price because whether 1 part or 3 parts, it ain't happening by 12/31. I'm sure if it was for a real tattoo, you'd feel likewise. I'd be up for the tattoo thing, but have been informed that it would have a significantly deleterious effect upon domestic harmony. Soooooo... no tattoos for me.

So I accept your counter-bet for the ONE part - auto lane changes to get around a slower vehicle directly in front in the same lane for the full $100 to the charity of the winner's choice. HOWEVER - it must do this. No wiggle room or weaselry - it either works or it does not. Fair enough?

The funny part is I do hope you're right. However, here's my counter-perspective: They've got more than enough things about which to worry with less than 6 full weeks to go in the year. Like year-end numbers. Anyway, may the best man win.

Actually bro you're a complete jerk in your whole post - I finally read the rest of it. Who the f*ck pissed in your cereal this morning? Your pom pom comment earlier today or yesterday was kind of funny. Now you're just being an ass. I'm here making conversation and staying light-hearted and you're turning into that guy at the party who wants to box while people are standing around sipping martinis. There's a mirror over there - go punch somebody who's interested. I'm not. If your sour mood has something to do with the AR kerfuffle a few weeks back (all I can think of that would get somebody turning into such a jerk today) - that's got nothing to do with this and it doesn't explain you being nasty to multiple individuals today who were not mean to you.

 

[buttershrimp]

Exhibit A above.



Exhibit B above.



No, actually you did not take the bet. You made a statement with 3 elements, received a bet for those 3 elements, retracted 2 of the 3 elements, offered to take exactly one-third or 33% of the bet, and *then* claimed to have taken the bet. For a few posts, anyway (see below), before applying what we in the business affectionately refer to as "weasel words".



This is a great idea. It's holiday season and charities are going to need all the help they can get. Whether $10 or $100 (or more, or less, or a donation of time/volunteering), I hope people choose to participate. Win or lose, this could turn into something (every year at this rate), and paying up is so easy now - just point and click.



Allllllllrighty then. In the space of a single thread, we have a statement with 3 parts, a bet for those 3 parts, a retrenchment to 1 part put forth as acceptance of the whole bet (not), and then the icing on the cake - all the ways he can win without delivering even the 1 part without a bunch of caveats (see disclaimers). They're gonna revoke yer TFC card if you keep that up.

Look. If this was for real money (or a real tattoo), I'd counter with $33 instead of $100 - and even that's generous, given the gutting of the terms.

However, I will still take the bet at the full price because whether 1 part or 3 parts, it ain't happening by 12/31. I'm sure if it was for a real tattoo, you'd feel likewise. I'd be up for the tattoo thing, but have been informed that it would have a significantly deleterious effect upon domestic harmony. Soooooo... no tattoos for me.

So I accept your counter-bet for the ONE part - auto lane changes to get around a slower vehicle directly in front in the same lane for the full $100 to the charity of the winner's choice. HOWEVER - it must do this. No wiggle room or weaselry - it either works or it does not. Fair enough?

The funny part is I do hope you're right. However, here's my counter-perspective: They've got more than enough things about which to worry with less than 6 full weeks to go in the year. Like year-end numbers. Anyway, may the best man win.

Oh no! Two of my time favorite TMCers are locked in battle! Is this what happens when Elon drops a car out of the back of a semi truck without mentioning autopilot improvements?

What they didn't show everyone is what was in the back of the other semi truck: Karpathy and the autopilot team working feverishly atop the sacrificed carcasses of Latner and Sterling, with George Hotz wearing the ball gag from Pulp Fiction. But they decided not to show that to the crowd, which is a shame, it would have prevented this type of TMCer on TMCer violence, also lunitiks would have a nice time with the imagery.

Anyway, what are we betting?

 

[Tjhappel]

So is there a bet or not???? Let’s all put some money on it! Safe to say most of us with ap2 would be STOKED if the car reliably stayed in the carpool lane... or passengers just thought it was smooth or not a gimmick.

So no more name calling, let’s place some wagers!!! Real money to charity. I’m in for zero meaningful ap updates before 12/31. And by meaningful I mean like multiple camera use and true ap1 parity “on freeway”

Can we figure out how to make this happen and stop the name calling?

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

CHill mode is only available if you have "esp2". Which according to the comments in the code is dualmotor.

I have Chill. No dual. Dual is for sissies. So is Chill.

 

[croman]

Does .46 improve AP at all? Make it worse? I'd like to get any improvements before a Thanksgiving road trip. I'd like to skip the update and stay with .42 if it is somehow worse or more of the same (just because I know .42 and it works fine and I'd rather not roll the dice before traveling).

 

[EinSV]

I raised two central issues in my earlier post:

(1) your repeated unnecessary and inappropriate personal attacks on posters who disagree with your negative opinions on AP, including other AP2 owners and

(2) your point of view is not the only valid one, as you seem to think.

You ignore the first point entirely. Instead, your response is just more of the same nastiness:

Creating an almost completely false narrative and then railing against that would have made you a lot of money in politics these past couple of years.

.... as you incorrectly yet conveniently assert in order to attempt to support your screed.

What I especially dislike about people that don't know what they're talking about

and yet still misrepresent the current state of ....

I find deliberately spun (and poorly at that) posts like yours particularly objectionable.

Second only, perhaps, to the myopic fanbois ....

Yeah... thanks for playing. Not your best work.

your fallback is that you don't like nastiness? Really? After your screed? Wow.

How about this - don't act like a fanboi, and people won't suggest that you are a fanboi.

It’s too bad that you can’t discuss AP rationally with other members and instead feel the need to stoop to polemics.

As for the second main issue I raised — sorry but you do not have a monopoly on the truth. Yet you still seem to think you do, and dismiss the large number of other AP1 and AP2 owners who disagree with your perspective.

On AP1, on the one hand you say you love it, but then say that AP1 Autosteer is “not ready for prime time”

1. I have repeated noted that TACC is worth the price of the car. Autosteer, on the other hand, whether AP1 and especially with AP2 is not yet ready for prime time - and I'm being kind.
.

Based on conversations with other Tesla owners and spending too much time on TMC, I think it is fair to say that your opinion on AP1 Autosteer is in the minority. Some AP1 owners do say they prefer to use TACC, but a very large number rave about Autosteer. I have personally used it for a year on a 20+ mile commute each way and it is fantastic. I really do not understand the perspective of those who share your point of view. But I respect their right to have a different opinion. You might try that some time.

And as for AP2, as I mentioned I do not have it but dozens and dozens of other posters on TMC as well as other Tesla owners I know personally also have expressed having a positive experience, especially with the more recent firmware releases.

Hate to break it to you, but yours is not the only opinion that matters.

The same is true with respect to the improvements to AP2 — I trust the opinions of the large number of posters who have commented on the significant improvements over time than the handful of posters, such as yourself, who can never seem to find a good thing to say about it.

You can (and do) call these people liars, fanbois and cheerleaders but that is clearly false. They include a large number of owners who were vocal critics of early versions of AP2 but have good things to say about the more recent versions. These opinions are valid. The adolescent name calling is out of line.

Thanks but no thanks for your advice to stick with an AP1 car. Since you don’t even seem to appreciate Autosteer AP1 I don’t think we are going to see eye-to-eye on AP generally..

In any case, I tend to dismiss polemics and personal attacks, especially when other owners have provided detailed information about their experiences, videos and the like.

 

[oktane]

Hearsay of other people’s positive view of AP2 must be more valid than actual AP2 owners experiences. @calisnow is the exception in having both and loving AP2. I think AP2 is passable for someone who never experienced AP1 and weren’t sold the moon prior to AP2 test drive cars being available and falling for Tesla’s hype and lies.

 

[buttershrimp]

By the way, does anyone besides me think that Elon not mentioning autopilot at all at the reveal is a sign of something good to come? I mean, seriously, think about it.

Hearsay of other people’s positive view of AP2 must be more valid than actual AP2 owners experiences. @calisnow is the exception in having both and loving AP2. I think AP2 is passable for someone who never experienced AP1 and weren’t sold the moon prior to AP2 test drive cars being available and falling for Tesla’s hype and lies.

I certainly get people who had AP1, feeling miffed with certain things about AP2 like recognizing motorcycles and the like, but this is where it stops for me. I am very very happy with AP2, but certainly want to see more substantial improvements over time. I think some people are so pissed at feeling misled by the video and Elon's tweets that there is a backlash on everything AP2. I hope that someone with both cars will do a state of the AP test in January 2018 comparing AP1 to AP2 on the same day and course. I just wish we could make that happen.

I do think there are big leaps ahead... partly because I'm seeing Elon talk less and less about autopilot progress, and I think that reflects a fundamental change in approach. I am hoping that Karpathy ends up being to autopilot what Franz has been to design.... a long and successful partnership hire. In the end, all of us are investing in the people at Tesla. The talent they've assembled and the enthusiasm among their hardcore long lasting employees make me stay positive.

 

[ucmndd]

No way in hell auto lane change is coming by the end of the year. Full stop.

To automatically change lanes, the car would first need to be able to reliably identify adjacent lanes. If you have an AP2 car, spend a minute or two watching the lane identification while auto steer is engaged. Now imagine your car deciding for you when to switch to one of those adjacent “lanes”. Dog help us all if that were to be turned on tomorrow.

 

[conman]

No way in hell auto lane change is coming by the end of the year. Full stop.

To automatically change lanes, the car would first need to be able to reliably identify adjacent lanes. If you have an AP2 car, spend a minute or two watching the lane identification while auto steer is engaged. Now imagine your car deciding for you when to switch to one of those adjacent “lanes”. Dog help us all if that were to be turned on tomorrow.

Not sure what you're talking about. My AP2 car has decided to change lanes many times already when I least expected it.

 

[don123]

Let's face it, Elon is an optimist ... but he eventually delivers. If he wasn't such an optimist there'd be no Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City, solar cell roof tiles, super battery backup systems, superchargers (7,000), etc. He'd be pretty boring (pun intended). The guy is working hard; he's aiming for the moon ... or was that Mars? He's done wonders, let's cut him some slack. Our AP is way ahead of the competition, it's gradually pulling further ahead, and it has great hardware. FSD is coming. Did I mention the semi truck and that red roadster? Amazing. Stay focussed boys.

 

[lunitiks]

Let's face it, Elon is an optimist ... but he eventually delivers. If he wasn't such an optimist there'd be no Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City, solar cell roof tiles, super battery backup systems, superchargers (7,000), etc. He'd be pretty boring (pun intended). The guy is working hard; he's aiming for the moon ... or was that Mars? He's done wonders, let's cut him some slack. Our AP is way ahead of the competition, it's gradually pulling further ahead, and it has great hardware. FSD is coming. Did I mention the semi truck and that red roadster? Amazing. Stay focussed boys.

Or...

 

[BigD0g]

Does .46 improve AP at all? Make it worse? I'd like to get any improvements before a Thanksgiving road trip. I'd like to skip the update and stay with .42 if it is somehow worse or more of the same (just because I know .42 and it works fine and I'd rather not roll the dice before traveling).

No change for me, ho hum.

 

[whitex]

Let's face it, Elon is an optimist ... but he eventually delivers.

Who told you he eventually delivers? While he eventually delivers some stuff, some stuff he never delivers, and some stuff he kind-of delivers but not to the people who originally paid him for it (as in future customers get the feature, not the customer he originally sold the feature to).

 

[BigD0g]

So is there a bet or not???? Let’s all put some money on it! Safe to say most of us with ap2 would be STOKED if the car reliably stayed in the carpool lane... or passengers just thought it was smooth or not a gimmick.

So no more name calling, let’s place some wagers!!! Real money to charity. I’m in for zero meaningful ap updates before 12/31. And by meaningful I mean like multiple camera use and true ap1 parity “on freeway”

Can we figure out how to make this happen and stop the name calling?

100 on nothing meaningful this year. New vector maps or mapping updates do not count. Must be true EAP type functionality.