Technically, that's not true. You pay sales tax when you register the vehicle. The car is purchased from California and there's a third party that handles the taxes/registration here in Texas.
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Technically, that's not true. You pay sales tax when you register the vehicle. The car is purchased from California and there's a third party that handles the taxes/registration here in Texas.
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
If you have to pay sales tax on the full purchase price, and the state sales tax is collected by your county tax collector, that's pretty good evidence that the state considers the purchase within its purview.
Except you are not purchasing the Tesla from Texas. The tax you pay is a use tax rather than sales tax which are the same amount.
https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/motor-vehicle/sales-use.php said:
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
Right, so nobody purchases a car from the State of Texas, but they all pay a use tax to the State of Texas if they want to use it here. So what is the difference if you purchase the car in Texas via the internet, take delivery in Texas and pay the use tax to Texas? If Texas wants to provide an incentive for Texans to purchase cleaner cars, why do they make a distinction? Or is it just another TADA subsidy?
The Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive Program (LDPLI) will provide rebate incentives statewide to persons who purchase or lease an eligible new light-duty motor vehicle powered by compressed natural gas (CNG), liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), or hydrogen fuel cells or other electric drives (plug-in or plug-in hybrid). Only vehicles purchased in Texas are eligible for the incentive.
You pay sales tax if you buy a car in Texas from a dealership. You are not buying a Tesla in Texas. Tesla can not sell cars in Texas. You are buying it from California and having it delivered in Texas.
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
That's right, but what difference does it make to the state? They want people to buy clean cars to use in Texas don't they?
Dr. J
Active Member
Dr. J
Active Member
Clearly, the legislative intent is to exclude Tesla because the TADA doesn't like 'em. But buying and using an EV here fits the spirit of the law. The thing, then, is how the TCEQ will write the rules for the rebate. I'm not saying a lobbying effort is likely to be successful in getting Tesla buyers included (quite the opposite), but I like tilting at windmills as much as anybody. $2,500 is (maybe) worth a shot.
The rules were written a long time ago. This bill just added funding to the existing program which ran out of money. The car has to be SOLD in Texas. Teslas are not sold in Texas. When a Texan buys one the sale actually takes place in California, or another state where direct sales are legal. Also the rules include paperwork to be completed by the dealer, because as we know only dealers can sell new cars in Texas.
We went through this in 2013 when the program was created. You can probably find threads about it from then.
Dr. J
Active Member
OK, maybe so. I was under the impression that a new round of rule making would occur since the world has changed since 2015--for example, the list of eligible vehicles will have to be updated. But you appear to be right on the main point: the car has to be sold in Texas.
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
I think Dr. J is saying that there may be a chance to re-write the rules. It looks like he should be in a position to know (LDPLI Program Coordinator).
The other galling thing about the the way it was set up is the thought that our (sales/use?) tax dollars could be funding the rebate for TADA purchases.
Yes, the likely cause. It would also need to be worded to keep people from double dipping as well.
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
Update on the Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive Program (LDPLI rebate) rulemaking status:
I have also learned that there is a Tesla team focusing on this issue and they will let us know of ways that we can be of help.
We are currently in the process of developing the rules necessary to implement the program. Information about the rulemaking process can be found on the TCEQ website. The rulemaking process for this program will include public notice and may include an opportunity for public comments to be received and considered by the TCEQ. Draft program rules are scheduled to be considered for release for public comment at the November 1, 2017 Commission Agenda. The public comment period is projected to run from 11/17/17 to 12/22/17 and the public hearing is scheduled for 12/11/17. Those dates are projected and therefore subject to change. Please verify agenda dates with the Chief Clerk's Office before planning to attend a Commission agenda. You can also submit public comments online.
We anticipate opening the program in the spring of 2018. Once the program is open, the eligibility criteria, a list of eligible vehicles, application forms and instructions will be posted to our website. www.terpgrants.org
We anticipate opening the program in the spring of 2018. Once the program is open, the eligibility criteria, a list of eligible vehicles, application forms and instructions will be posted to our website. www.terpgrants.org
I have also learned that there is a Tesla team focusing on this issue and they will let us know of ways that we can be of help.
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
Update:
The pending proposed new rules for the Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive (LDPLI) Program are available to view:
Also see Pending Proposals.
The new rules would "define the eligible sale of a new light-duty vehicle in the state to include vehicles that may be purchased from a seller outside of Texas, but are issued first title in the state of Texas."
The pending proposed new rules for the Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive (LDPLI) Program are available to view:
Also see Pending Proposals.
The new rules would "define the eligible sale of a new light-duty vehicle in the state to include vehicles that may be purchased from a seller outside of Texas, but are issued first title in the state of Texas."
I don't think this program ever included used cars. The new language seems written so buyers of new Teslas are eligible for the rebate, which they hadn't been previously because they're not "sold" in the state. Cue the TADA outrage in 3...2...1...
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
Update on the TCEQ Commissioners meeting of 11/15, from a Tesla rep who was there [highlighting by me]:
The commissioners adopted the staff proposal, but Commissioner Shaw made the motion to amend it first, reverting the program rules back to the previous language; meaning only purchases from Texas dealers would qualify.
This was unexpected as both staff at the agency and within the Governor’s office signaled that they would allow the proposed rules, which included Tesla buyers, to move forward. They agreed with our argument that since Tesla buyers also pay the state sales tax on their vehicle purchases just like those purchased at a dealership, they should have the opportunity to apply for the rebate.
The rules are not finalized however; the adoption from Wednesday opens the proposal up for public comment. I am working with our team to engage third party policy and advocacy groups that can help make our case on the record. This is also a forum where Tesla owners can do the same.
The adoption process will continue throughout the Spring (the Commission set an anticipated formal adoption date for April, 2018 though subject to change), and we will be active in our pursuit to get our buyers included in the process.
The URL for comments is: http://www1.tceq.texas.gov/rules/ecomments/#
The rulemaking to comment on is: 2017-030-114-AI: SB 1731: Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive Program
The commissioners adopted the staff proposal, but Commissioner Shaw made the motion to amend it first, reverting the program rules back to the previous language; meaning only purchases from Texas dealers would qualify.
This was unexpected as both staff at the agency and within the Governor’s office signaled that they would allow the proposed rules, which included Tesla buyers, to move forward. They agreed with our argument that since Tesla buyers also pay the state sales tax on their vehicle purchases just like those purchased at a dealership, they should have the opportunity to apply for the rebate.
The rules are not finalized however; the adoption from Wednesday opens the proposal up for public comment. I am working with our team to engage third party policy and advocacy groups that can help make our case on the record. This is also a forum where Tesla owners can do the same.
The adoption process will continue throughout the Spring (the Commission set an anticipated formal adoption date for April, 2018 though subject to change), and we will be active in our pursuit to get our buyers included in the process.
The rulemaking to comment on is: 2017-030-114-AI: SB 1731: Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive Program
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