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2020 LR+ actual range 65% of rated

Knownow

Member
Sep 16, 2019
8
1
Bay area
Hi,

I recently bought MS 2020 LR+ with premium wheels. Since I have free supercharging, I charge it at the supercharger. I don't drive a lot about 100 miles per week, but I noticed that this is sufficient to drain the battery by about 40%. My use case is that I charge the car to 80% at the supercharger, then drive about a 100 miles during the week, which drives down the usage to between 35-40% at which point I take it to the supercharger again.

The car's range is supposed to be ~400 miles which means I am getting about 250/400 of the actual range. The car shows that my Wh/mile hovers around 330.

Three questions:
Is this the kind of idle discharge (when the car is parked) that should be expected? It seems quite high for my use case (about 7-10kwh every 7 days).

Rough gas math. If I was paying for all this electricity myself, it seems like my car's fuel costs are roughly equivalent to an ICE car that gives 35MPG. It's not particularly cheap to run the cars on electricity. [Of course, here I am not having to pay for electricity, because I charge at superchargers, so the issue is moot for me, but still relevant in general].

Are there long term effects on battery capacity of charging at super charger to 80%? Lots of people are reluctant to charge at superchargers because they are worried about impact on battery capacity. As you can tell, I am not in the same camp. I wonder if this is a myth to reduce super charger usage (which saves money for the company). By my estimates, I would be saving about 500$/year by charging at the supercharger.

Thanks.
 

csanders90D

Supporting Member
Jun 10, 2016
125
172
San Diego, CA
Measuring range over a week's worth of short trips isn't accurate. Some energy is lost while the car is parked, and the beginning of each trip is much less efficient as the car gets the cabin and battery up to temperature. This is especially true in the winter. Take a longer trip for a more accurate range measurement.

To get an accurate cost comparison, take a look at what EV rates your electric company offers. In San Diego, I charge in the middle of the night for $0.09/kWh, around 1/3 of what the superchargers cost (if you don't have free supercharging). Also, don't forget to include the value of your time spent to get "free" supercharging. Last time I did the math, the value of the free electricity is somewhere around minimum wage. I find the convenience of a full battery, not even having to think about range unless I'm on a road trip, worth more than the free electrons.
 

cookie99

Member
Mar 14, 2016
911
456
California
i'd like to see your rough math of the 35MPG equivalent. i also live in california but i dont see the math being that low even with expensive electricity
 

GeorgeM

Member
Jan 4, 2020
46
68
NJ, USA
#1: Your car seem quite normal. If you are driving the car every day it is not going into full sleep very long so losing 1Kwh per day in vampire drain is normal. Your Wh/mile pretty much accounts for the remaining energy usage. Your car started with something on the order of 95Kwh available in a fully charged battery (now probably less due to degradation). A drop of 40% in the battery state of charge would be 38Kwh. Your driving consumption accounts for 33Kwh. Your vampire drain is only 5Kwh. Probably even lower if your available capacity has dropped at all from new. What you report sounds like everything is normal.

#2: My car is costing me 5.5 cents per mile to operate charging at home ($0.13/Kwh in NJ ). This is energy into the car. I exclude any
miles added from supercharging. Charging losses and vampire drain are included. At 100 miles added back per week at roughly 1/2 hour per recharge you are spending 26 hours supercharging plus time to and from the supercharger. At my cost I have better uses for my time not to mention never having to hit up a supercharger before an unexpected bit of driving pops up. And better for you to compare "fuel costs" of a MS to something of equivalent size that gets maybe 20 to 22 mpg average.

#3. Opinions are all over the place and there are plenty of threads supporting those various opinions. Have fun reading and drawing your own conclusion.
 
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Electric700

Active Member
May 21, 2013
1,709
370
Florida, United States
Knownow, try activating Energy Saving from the center screen menu. You may want to also deactivate Always Connected, though that may slightly increase access times using the app. These two settings affect energy use while the car is not being driven. Third party apps do also, so you may want to try deactivating those at least temporarily if you're using them.

Congratulations on your car!
 
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BPeter

Member
Feb 2, 2019
681
980
Minnesota
Premium wheels as in the 21" wheels? Those kill your range, Tesla doesn't list the difference in range for the LR+ on 21" but they do on the Performance. It goes from 387 down to 334 miles. If the LR+ is scaled at the same ratio that would bring the 402 miles down to 347 rated. Then take even more losses such as winter driving off from there.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,700
12,575
California
Knownow, try activating Energy Saving from the center screen menu. You may want to also deactivate Always Connected, though that may slightly increase access times using the app. These two settings affect energy use while the car is not being driven. Third party apps do also, so you may want to try deactivating those at least temporarily if you're using them.

Congratulations on your car!

These options don’t exist on new cars. These are MCU1 only settings.
 

Electroman

Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,260
6,414
TX
Sentry mode kills range while parked. Turn it off if it is parked in your garage.

Also please don't use SC exclusively. I presume you are doing it to save a few pennies, because SC is free for you now? Charge in your garage, if you have one. I am sure many would say and Tesla too that frequent SC is not bad. I don't believe that.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,700
12,575
California
Also please don't use SC exclusively. I presume you are doing it to save a few pennies, because SC is free for you now? Charge in your garage, if you have one. I am sure many would say and Tesla too that frequent SC is not bad. I don't believe that.
Well. Thank dog we have your beliefs to guide us.
 
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AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,397
3,369
Phoenix, AZ
Hi,

I recently bought MS 2020 LR+ with premium wheels. Since I have free supercharging, I charge it at the supercharger. I don't drive a lot about 100 miles per week, but I noticed that this is sufficient to drain the battery by about 40%. My use case is that I charge the car to 80% at the supercharger, then drive about a 100 miles during the week, which drives down the usage to between 35-40% at which point I take it to the supercharger again.

The car's range is supposed to be ~400 miles which means I am getting about 250/400 of the actual range. The car shows that my Wh/mile hovers around 330.

Three questions:
Is this the kind of idle discharge (when the car is parked) that should be expected? It seems quite high for my use case (about 7-10kwh every 7 days).

Rough gas math. If I was paying for all this electricity myself, it seems like my car's fuel costs are roughly equivalent to an ICE car that gives 35MPG. It's not particularly cheap to run the cars on electricity. [Of course, here I am not having to pay for electricity, because I charge at superchargers, so the issue is moot for me, but still relevant in general].

Are there long term effects on battery capacity of charging at super charger to 80%? Lots of people are reluctant to charge at superchargers because they are worried about impact on battery capacity. As you can tell, I am not in the same camp. I wonder if this is a myth to reduce super charger usage (which saves money for the company). By my estimates, I would be saving about 500$/year by charging at the supercharger.

Thanks.
You're driving it wrong lol
 

Knownow

Member
Sep 16, 2019
8
1
Bay area
Thanks for all the comments. Here are some responses / comments.

- I actually enjoy the visit to supercharger as I use the time while it is supercharging to run. So ironically it's a productive use of my time. Of course, I do have to spend about 7-8 mins each way which is wasteful.
- I checked and my long term Wh/mile is 308 (not 330 as in original post). I bet this is due to my wife's gentle driving :) When I am driving the instantaneous Wh/mile is quite high as I am not paying too much attention to maximizing my range.
- Don't have a 240V charger in my garage and charging on 110V just takes forever. Frankly, I haven't been too bugged by the time spent to take my car to supercharger (see first bullet above)
- 21" wheels should kill the range, except that should be reflected in my Wh/mile number. As mentioned earlier, the Wh/mile number is 308 which is not terrible I think.
- Here's the rough math that gives me equivalent of 35MPG. I assumed about 40kWh gives me about 100 miles range. Charging the car at home would cost about 21c/kWh => 100 miles costs about 8$. Add extra 10% charging efficiency and it cost about 9$. Gas prices near me are 3$/gallon. => 35MPG. This may be artificially lower because of temporary dip in gas prices. Even if one assumes gas prices to be about 4$/gallon, it equates to a ~50MPG ICE range which is well covered by a hybrid.
- Although, good point about comparing fuel costs of MS to something of comparable size.
- My utility company doesn't have special EV / ToU rates. But they have very good solar export rates so I am not complaining :)
- I have Sentry mode disabled at home.
- I think Tesla guarantees battery to hold 90% of their capacity for some number of years (not sure how many). So I am not planning to stop charging at Supercharger anytime soon. I really want to test the theory whether Superchargers affect battery capacity. Some folks that I have talked to charge quite frequently. I do take care to charge between 40 - 80% at the supercharger.
 

Knownow

Member
Sep 16, 2019
8
1
Bay area
Thanks. I forgot to mention that I have the Chill mode enabled. Grudgingly, it is enabled automatically if I set the speed limit mode on (to 85mph) which I have because I am worried I will drive too fast. Maybe that affects Wh/mile.
 

Electroman

Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,260
6,414
TX
I assumed about 40kWh gives me about 100 miles range
What??? That is a consumption of 400 Wh / mile. There is no way your Model 3 or any Model 3 is that bad in efficiency.

Even on coldest of nights, the initial few miles of driving might be at 400 Wh/mile and then it will come down below 300. In Summer it should average to 250 Wh/mile over 100 miles of driving, and in winter around 290 Wh/mile. My 30k miles of driving average over 30 months was at 243 Wh/mile.
 
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FatherTo1

Member
Mar 7, 2019
820
710
California
I experienced this too the first two weeks we had our Standard Range Raven S w/21" wheels. However, soon after my efficiency greatly improved and got even better after I downgraded to 19" wheels. Now, after 17 months my lifetime average is 262 Wh/m and I regularly exceed EPA estimates around town.

What contributed to the 60-65% rated range was a combination of factors. With the car being new to me, I turned on every feature and Summon Standy is a huge battery drain, even more so than Sentry Mode. I also was running a lot of errands and making many short trips and keeping the AC on with dog mode or pre-cooling the car during the hot Summer heat. Like OP, I was a little panicked by the startling energy consumption early on but things have tapered off and I can confidently get 90% of rated miles without having to baby the pedal nor use Chill Mode. I understand where you're coming from, OP, but just sit back and relax. Enjoy the LR+ and your range will improve as you drive more. All of the OTA updates have continued to improve sleep and energy conservation. I notice I only lose 1% of battery every 24 hours when parked at home, whereas it used to lose 2-3% in 2019.
 
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