240V Outlet Install with a poorly placed main panel

[nrardin]

Really appreciate all of the advice guys.

So I finally got a second electrician out. I went with a local place that does a lot of Tesla charger installs and is certified by Tesla etc etc and I showed the guy around and asked him what my best option is.

He also quoted me about $2900 with a totally different idea.

I drew a rough sketch which I’ll add but my diagrams suck. His idea was to go up the rear exterior of the house from the main panel, over to the attic, through the attic and then down to the exterior of the garage.

Like I mentioned before, this is all necessary because I’m in an attached townhome with the panel at the rear on the opposite side of the garage, which faces front.

So for this I would need this stuff.
1. 60ft of outdoor 1.5” weather resistant conduit (20 up, 20 over, 20 down)
2. 15ft of indoor cable to go through the attic.
3. State taxes and permits and all that.
4. New breaker and the actual outlet install for a 14-50 NEMA

Like some thought, he didn’t love the idea of any sort of adapter on the dryer switch and didn’t want to convert a 120, saying it’s risky and his employer only lets them do stuff that’s all to code.

Does anyone have a sense of if this is fair? I really don’t have any experience here all I can do is google the price of stuff. What he said made sense to me, but was definitely more expensive than I hoped. Maybe this is just an expensive job?

 

[nrardin]

i got 3 quotes last January.

my main panel is on the opposite side of the house, a 50amp breaker, 100' of 6/3 Romex through the attic and down the garage wall, and wire up the wall charger for $1,500.

This is basically what my second quote was for and it was twice that. Only difference I think is this price includes permits and inspections required by my location (Raleigh, NC) but I really doubt that’s $1500.

Do you mind telling me where you had this done?

 

[fiehlsport]

Really appreciate all of the advice guys.

So I finally got a second electrician out. I went with a local place that does a lot of Tesla charger installs and is certified by Tesla etc etc and I showed the guy around and asked him what my best option is.

He also quoted me about $2900 with a totally different idea.

I drew a rough sketch which I’ll add but my diagrams suck. His idea was to go up the rear exterior of the house from the main panel, over to the attic, through the attic and then down to the exterior of the garage.

Like I mentioned before, this is all necessary because I’m in an attached townhome with the panel at the rear on the opposite side of the garage, which faces front.

So for this I would need this stuff.
1. 60ft of outdoor 1.5” weather resistant conduit (20 up, 20 over, 20 down)
2. 15ft of indoor cable to go through the attic.
3. State taxes and permits and all that.
4. New breaker and the actual outlet install for a 14-50 NEMA

Like some thought, he didn’t love the idea of any sort of adapter on the dryer switch and didn’t want to convert a 120, saying it’s risky and his employer only lets them do stuff that’s all to code.

Does anyone have a sense of if this is fair? I really don’t have any experience here all I can do is google the price of stuff. What he said made sense to me, but was definitely more expensive than I hoped. Maybe this is just an expensive job?

Two quotes in the same ballpark usually means the job is just difficult and/or expensive.

If the electrician seems cool... it might be worth asking them what they would charge to do the job on a Saturday for cash as a side job. You can remove all of the company's overhead with that option - and they're still a licensed electrician performing the work legally. (They can get a permit still if required, etc.)

 

[davewill]

It honestly doesn't sound too outrageous. Maybe try one more bid, but don't get sucked into some cheapo bid that cuts corners that shouldn't be cut.

Also don't forget to get approval from the HOA for the exterior conduit. Better to get that approved up front than have them try to make you redo it.

 

[kpanda17]

I had an electrician come out today and quote me over $3000 for installing a 240V outlet in the garage.

I’m in a connected townhome and the panel is inside a storage closet at the rear of the house. He explained the quote was so high because he would have to drill through a lot of drywall and run a long cable.

Has anyone else run into this? I can probably get by with trickle from a 120 but I figured I’d see if someone else has figured this problem out.

I have
it is alot of work, will he be finishing the drywall after? spackle and paint?
you can find a lot of videos on youtube showing daily drivers, charging with 110v, its not seamless and hard to react to quick longer distance runs when you are decreasing daily
one notable from Norway, gets to 80/100% on the weekend and then decreases and charges daily to minimize the daily drop, makes it through
id do the 110v and see if you can live with it following the Norway approach
if it does not make you feel secure, like having a vehicle always ready for go 200+ miles on a whim first thing in the AM, then do the L2/240v $3K
btw, get two more quotes to compare, specifically ask for Tesla Wall Connector install and programming experience, learn the WC manual and specifically ask for what type and gauge wire they will use and if there is a req for tightening the screws
if they say aluminum wire, 6 gauge and no specific torque on the screws, don't use that electrician
most are inexperienced

 

[tga]

Also don't forget to get approval from the HOA for the exterior conduit. Better to get that approved up front than have them try to make you redo it.

This. Having been on a condo board (ugh, bad memories), make sure you run this by the powers that be.

Also, I'd consider a getting a quote for a wall connector install. A heavy-duty outlet plus the required GFCI breaker for an outlet adds $150 in parts to the installation, a big portion of the WC cost.

Otherwise, I'd ask for wire that can support a 60A circuit (48A charging) - 6 gauge in conduit will work (but not 6 ga romex)

 

[Skavatar]

This is basically what my second quote was for and it was twice that. Only difference I think is this price includes permits and inspections required by my location (Raleigh, NC) but I really doubt that’s $1500.

Do you mind telling me where you had this done?

Houston, TX

 

[parsec]

Does anyone have a sense of if this is fair? I really don’t have any experience here all I can do is google the price of stuff. What he said made sense to me, but was definitely more expensive than I hoped. Maybe this is just an expensive job?

Yes, it sounds like an expensive job, and probably fairly priced.
I'd go for a Wall Connector for the better performance, and because there are fewer plug/socket connections (failure points) involved.
You would be wise to read through all the covenants before approaching the HOA. The exteriors of townhomes are often HOA responsibility, and therefore under relatively stricter control, as compared to single family homes.

 

[BillRadio]

I heartly recommend a 3rd quote. My 3rd electrician charged almost half of the other 2. I regret not trying the 110 volt plug for awhile before the 240v installation.

I also recommend the Tesla wall connector which you should supply. I also offered to wait for the inspector instead paying the electrician to do it.

 

[nrardin]

This. Having been on a condo board (ugh, bad memories), make sure you run this by the powers that be.

Also, I'd consider a getting a quote for a wall connector install. A heavy-duty outlet plus the required GFCI breaker for an outlet adds $150 in parts to the installation, a big portion of the WC cost.

Otherwise, I'd ask for wire that can support a 60A circuit (48A charging) - 6 gauge in conduit will work (but not 6 ga romex)

The wall connector is just Teslas wall charging fixture right? It

Yes, it sounds like an expensive job, and probably fairly priced.
I'd go for a Wall Connector for the better performance, and because there are fewer plug/socket connections (failure points) involved.
You would be wise to read through all the covenants before approaching the HOA. The exteriors of townhomes are often HOA responsibility, and therefore under relatively stricter control, as compared to single family homes.

What makes the wall connector better? I was under the impression it just collected metrics, which the app does anyway and otherwise just looked nice.

 

[Acps110]

The wall connector is just Teslas wall charging fixture right? It

What makes the wall connector better? I was under the impression it just collected metrics, which the app does anyway and otherwise just looked nice.

A hardwired Wall Connector is preferable to an outlet. An outlet can heat up and melt, but it is MUCH harder to melt a hardwired connection. The Wall Connector has beefier cables internally, so it can take a higher current load also.

If you are considering charging another EV, get a Universal Wall Connector with a built-in J1772 adapter. Those can charge Teslas with the NACS connector, or any other EV by using the J1772 adapter.

 

[tga]

The Wall Connector can also charge faster (up to 48A) on long range cars with the higher output charger.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

If I got quoted $3,000 to run 30' of cable, he wouldn't need to "drill through the drywall" . . . because I would already have punched several holes in it for him

I might also tell him that his quote was just a teensy weensy bit expensive

 

[EVer Hopeful]

brick-patterned paint would be a custom order.

. . . that'd you'd send the apprentice to fetch from Stores

 

[EVer Hopeful]

Another low-budget possibility: find two 120 outlets that are fed from different sides of the breaker panel. There might not be two in the garage, however. Search this forum for "Quick 220" or "quick 240" Local codes may forbid such things.

Well I wouldn't

a normal 240v circuit has a tied 240v breaker which means if one leg trips it'll trip the other leg too. Using two separate 120v breakers means you lose this safety feature

also, should anyone ever change the position of the breakers (could happen if they're adding new circuits) or replace one of your pair with a tandem breaker then . . .

and that's just one reason I wouldn't do this - ok two reasons

 

[snellenr]

The wall connector is just Teslas wall charging fixture right? It

What makes the wall connector better? I was under the impression it just collected metrics, which the app does anyway and otherwise just looked nice.

The Tesla wall connector has several advantages:

• It only requires 2 "hot" wires, vs 3 (2 hot, 1 neutral) for a 14-50 NEMA (a smaller ground wire is also required, of course)
  • You're using conduit anyway, so you can use individual wires (called THHN) rather than NM-B ("Romex") cable
    • 60 ft of 6 AWG THHN costs $90 at my Home Depot, so that's ~ $90 saved right there
    • (optional) 60 ft of 4 AWG THHN costs ~ $120 and supports wall connector's full 60 amp capability
• It is hardwired to the junction box, so you can use a standard breaker (~ $15) rather than a GFCI circuit breaker (~ $120)
  • This is the case under the 2017 National Electrical Code - your area may be different (your electrician will know)
• You avoid buying a ~ $60 industrial(e.g., Hubbell, Bryant brands) 14-50 NEMA outlet entirely
  • Do not accept a $10 Leviton 14-50 outlet (Home Depot, etc) - lots (!!!) of discussions here about their cheapness

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Eric33432]

As others have said, the Tesla Wall Connector only needs 2 hot wires and a ground wire. 2 #6 THHN/THWN hot wires when installed in conduit (or MC cable) are good for a 60 amp circuit and 48 amp charging. The ground wire can be #10. This only needs 3/4 inch conduit.

If you install a TWC the materials (not counting the TWC) will cost about $400 for 60 feet as you do not need the expensive receptacle / GFCI breaker.

The rest is labor and profit. If this took 8 hours to install, they would be charging you about $300 per hour for labor and profit. Seems a bit high to me.

In the next year or two, almost all EVs will be using NACS, so unless you think you will buy a non Tesla EV in the next year or so, just get the regular TWC (if you decide to go with the wall connector). This will be in use for many years, think of it as an investment.

 

[Rocky_H]

and that's just one reason I wouldn't do this - ok two reasons

...except none of those reasons apply. If someone were just messing around with wire and pliers trying to do this, then sure, those a very real safety problems. But the reason to specifically spend more money to get a real professionally built named device like a "Quick220" is that they construct ALL of those safety detection and protection mechanisms into it. If either side gets disconnected or one of the two breakers trip or those other things you're worrying about, they see that and shut off. Making it safe is why they sell those as a product. So I will speak up for that, but it's a separate issue from them being just about useless, because it's rare you can find a situation where it's practical to use.

He also quoted me about $2900 with a totally different idea.


4. New breaker and the actual outlet install for a 14-50 NEMA

I guess that sounds kind of reasonable for the overall labor of running the circuit, but I just wouldn't end that in a receptacle to have to plug something into. Put a hard wired wall connector on the end of that circuit.