3-phase 32 amp recharge for model S with dual chargers

[DITB]

Has anyone received/installed one of these in Australia please?

Thank you,

Dimtrios

We are now in the process of testing various charging stations under various conditions (AC charging).

Single or dual chargers installed?

Tesla charging station or third party?

Single or three phase?

On board chargers were initially listed as 11/22 kW, then changed to 10/20kW. This is odd as I am getting more than 22kW in a type-2, three phase 220V system, and it's not even Tesla but third party (Hong Kong CLP)

See the table we are working on here: #366

Note that the table still needs to be updated with actual charging rates - 220V / 80A is 17.6 kW, while I have seen up to 22.5 kW (22.4 kW average over three hours), so there is either an under-promise or 20+ % loss somewhere.

 

[Gabz]

Has anyone looked at direct charging the Model S from a PV array? I am keen to know as I have asked previously but Tesla has not provided a response. The only answer I get is just conenct your solar to the grid and draw back off the grid.

However in my case, my 4kW PV array is grid connected and delivering $0.50 per Kwh under the ACT feed-in tariff. Since I work from home I would like to put another array on my house and use this to directly charge the car (either via an inverter) or maybe even direct DC. Obviously there are lots of issues with panel shading, cloud cover etc that will cause varying output levels to the car. I wonder how the on-board chargers on the Model S would cope with this, or should we put a cut-out device maybe around the 1kwh level that stops the charge going to the car below this level?

Open to any ideas here. Thanks.

For you to direct dc charge you need tesla to publish the supercharging protocol. no sign of that any time soon.

If you go a off gird system with a battery bank it's DC to charge battery then DC/AC invertor (pure sine wave) to charge the car with auto cut off, you turn the charge rate on the EVSE down to 8amp or 10amp and you only then need a battery back big enough to stablise incase you get a cloud. so 2-3 kwh. so if you want to charge faster bigger invertor and bigger battery. on the aeva forum there is a guy with made a e jerry can 4kwh of battery and a 3000W DC/AC invertor.

 

[MangroveMike]

I don't think an 80amp single phase charger will be approved in Australia. and if it is it won't take long before its banned.

Phase imbalance on the transformers make life harder on network operators.

Gabz, is 63amp likely then ?

 

[plaeuschler]

Has anyone looked at direct charging the Model S from a PV array? I am keen to know as I have asked previously but Tesla has not provided a response. The only answer I get is just conenct your solar to the grid and draw back off the grid.

However in my case, my 4kW PV array is grid connected and delivering $0.50 per Kwh under the ACT feed-in tariff. Since I work from home I would like to put another array on my house and use this to directly charge the car (either via an inverter) or maybe even direct DC. Obviously there are lots of issues with panel shading, cloud cover etc that will cause varying output levels to the car. I wonder how the on-board chargers on the Model S would cope with this, or should we put a cut-out device maybe around the 1kwh level that stops the charge going to the car below this level?

Open to any ideas here. Thanks.

There are plenty of threads on this topic in the German Forums. Seems to work fine since Firmware 6.0 as long as the current doesn't go below 6 amps.
e.g. TFF Forum - Tesla Fahrer und Freunde Laden mit Photovoltaik

Btw. 3-phase AC with 32 amps works fine with the dual charger. Popular wall connectors in Europe are:
- cr-Ohm: crOhm EVSE1M40 Ladebox - YouTube
- Wallb-E: wallb-e ev charging - Charging solutions for your emobility
- Juice-Booster1: Mobile Ladebox JUICE BOOSTER 1 - e-driver.net - THE HOME OF ELECTRIC DRIVING (note: lacks RCCB)

 

[SteveWest]

On board chargers were initially listed as 11/22 kW, then changed to 10/20kW. This is odd as I am getting more than 22kW in a type-2, three phase 220V system, and it's not even Tesla but third party (Hong Kong CLP)

See the table we are working on here: #366

Note that the table still needs to be updated with actual charging rates - 220V / 80A is 17.6 kW, while I have seen up to 22.5 kW (22.4 kW average over three hours), so there is either an under-promise or 20+ % loss somewhere.

I've seen close to 23kW:

 

[Mark E]

Hi Steve, just out of interest, which charger are you using set up as a mobile with a 3 phase plug?

 

[DITB]

I've seen close to 23kW:

Oh nice, you are getting 238V AC! Hong Kong is the old style 220V, today when I tried I got 217-219V AC only.

Updated findings are here:

#372

Feel free to comment on it. Main conclusion is that the HK Teslas (and probably also AU and EU/UK) are NOT limited to 40A/80A for single/dual chargers, but rather for 3x16A or 3x32A, or 48/96A in other words.

You getting 32A/3~ with 238V should give you 22.85 kW in that example you are showing. 104 km/hr would be around 23.09 kW after my findings, so my 222 Wh/km for typical range might be wrong.

As you can see in the link, one question I would like the answer to is this:

Is "typical range" varying with each car, depending on it's driving history, or is it a constant value embedded in the software/firmware?

While my values are around 222 Wh/km for typical range and 177.5 Wh/km for rated, it seems yours are different. Could you tell me, please, what is you cars average Wh/km so far? May I guess it is around 212 Wh/km? If it is, then I think I might have an answer to that question above in bold (= varying), since my own derived value of ~ 222 Wh/km for typical range doesn't fit your 104 km/hr well, considering 3x32A and 238V AC.

 

[Dborn]

I asked ownership that very question. Typical range is varying and depends on that specific cars driving history.

 

[SteveWest]

I asked ownership that very question. Typical range is varying and depends on that specific cars driving history.

I call BS. My typical has never changed from 200 Wh/km. I believe it is tailored to the specific configuration but not driving history.

DITB, even with a constant "typical" Wh/km rating, there will be varying AC consumption depending on the efficiency of the charger at that particular line voltage, battery voltage, and current. My lifetime average is 208 Wh/km (driving, not charging).

 

[DITB]

I call BS. My typical has never changed from 200 Wh/km. I believe it is tailored to the specific configuration but not driving history.

DITB, even with a constant "typical" Wh/km rating, there will be varying AC consumption depending on the efficiency of the charger at that particular line voltage, battery voltage, and current. My lifetime average is 208 Wh/km (driving, not charging).

Well, Steve, despite not knowing your life time average, I was quite close with my 212 guess, which I "reverse engineered" from your numbers. (EDIT: It was late last night, now I don't know how I got to that number, 212)

It's very easy to find out, whether "typical range" is affected by driving style, or not.

1. While charging, note the combined amps and voltage, to find the precise kW of charging, ie (32+32+32) x 238 = 22,848 W or 22.848 kW

2. Select "Distance" and "Typical range" in the units screen under settings

3. Let the charging stabilise, like one hour charging or more, but before it starts to taper

4. Divide the kW from 1 with the indicated (and stabilised) km/h charging, ie 22,848 W / 104 km/h, to get 219.7 Wh/km

So now I don't know where I got the 212 Wh/km guess from, although it was close to your 208 Wh/km

Still, my 222 is higher than your 220. Could be fluctuating voltage, or the initial charging not increasing equally fast?

The car measures how many kW is being charged, then (if distance is selected), converts it into km/h in either RATED or TYPICAL. While the kW rating is near instantaneous, the km/h is average from charging started (hence one has to wait a while for it to stabilise). I would presume the car simply takes kWh charged over the time of the charge, then divide by the rated or typical Wh/km. ie charging 19 kWh over 52 minutes would give (19.9 * 60 / 52) / .2197 = 104.5 km/h

The question still remains:

When the car displays how fast you are charging, and you selected "Range" and "Typical", converting kW measured (or kWh/h since it's an average not instant) - is that conversion affected by your driving history?

Put in another way:

Two identical cars, on the same charger, one having a very gently driving history while the other always driven like a race car: Will their km/h charging show the same or not?

 

[SteveWest]

You don't seem to distinguish between the AC input to the charger, the DC output from the charger, and the resulting "available" Wh from the battery. The "km/h" charging rate reflects the rate that typical range is increasing by. Typical range is an attribute of the potential battery output. The charger is not 100% efficient, nor is the battery 100% energy efficient (Wh out / Wh in), though it comes damn close in Ah efficiency (Ah out / Ah in).

My "typical range" matches my "projected range" when my average consumption = 200 Wh/km, so for my car "typical" is calculated at 200 Wh/km. But I also know that 219.7 Wh of AC power were registered above per km added. So I can deduce that the combined rountrip efficiency of the charger and battery at that particular time was 91%. I wouldn't bet on that efficiency being constant across SOC, line voltage, and charge current.

- - - Updated - - -

ps today my graph went spastic, with the "typical" line rendered way lower than usual. The dash board estimate was not changed, so I think it was just a graphical glitch.