75 and 75D variants increased performance from July 1st - software and hardware improvements?

[croman]

I have a 60D vin around 169.. that I received the end of March. After reading these threads I had resigned I'd never get the 4.2 performance boost even if I did the 75D upgrade. Then the other day Tesla came to pick up my car for service in Cleveland. It's down there for a creaking and some other small issues I've found since delivery. The transporter said outright " I'm almost 100% sure you would get that performance boost if you buy the 75D upgrade." but mentioned I should confirm it first. I don't believe the guy so I call the SC and speak to an 'owners advisor' who says crystal clear "No, only newly produced cars can receive the performance boost". That's what I expected to hear. Then later in the day another guy from the same SC who is with the guys working on my car calls me to specifically discuss the 75D upgrade questions I have. I mentioned clearly I don't need the range but if an upgrade got me the added range and the new ~4.2 sec 0-60 time I'd buy the upgrade in a second so they can re-badge it there at the SC. He tells me very plainly "yes if you upgrade you the 75D you'll see the performance boost.". At this point my head is spinning from the double talk and I'm waiting on an email confirming my vin, if upgraded there at the SC would receive the new speeds or I won't bother making the purchase. I don't expect to ever get that email. I'm sadly thinking that it's more likely the people on the ground are just spouting nonsense on the off chance I might get emotional an buy it on impulse, and pad the bottom line.

Tesla themselves are saying its hardware changes. They were very clear. The worker bees do not know much as Tesla intentionally keeps them (and us, their customers) deliberately in the dark.

 

[number12]

The car is still the same as when you bought it. You knew what you were getting and you paid for it. Expecting Tesla to continually give your car new features is not seen anywhere in the auto industry. And if you bought your car expecting it to hold its value, well then....

What if your charging got throttled or your launches got limited. Then it is not the same car you bought. So you suggest people are allowed to return?

 

[D.E.]

What chaps me is my 5.2 second NEW car has just been depreciated an extra $5-10K. Computers and phones don't introduce upgrades several times a year. With Tesla, no one knows when the year end is. Plus, I'm still waiting on my EAP to work as advertised. They dated my car before they finished delivering it.

That depreciation would have occurred whether the performance improvement was delivered now or a year from now. It only makes a difference if you were to sell the car now. I think the depreciation is realized at the time of sale (or the time of loss if it becomes an insurance claim issue).

If you choose to sell the car now in order to purchase a newer one with the 4.2 second 0-60 time, then that full depreciation would be realized.

That depreciation amount, if accurate, will be incorporated into the total depreciation so should ramp down in importance as the car ages and the age of the car becomes the prime determinant of total depreciation. Suppose there is a 10% value loss now, say $7500. When the car otherwise depreciates to half its value, that absolute loss in value will be reduced to half as well. So if you were to sell now and saw a $7500 additional depreciation loss, when the car is otherwise worth half as much, I would expect that additional depreciation to be $3750 or possibly less. It is still a bite but the importance of it should decrease over time.

Say the "half value" occurs in 5 years, for example, and say that is the time you trade the car. I believe the additional $3750 in depreciation would have occurred if the performance increase had happened at any time over that 5 years. So that depreciation isn't linked to the frequency of hardware/performance upgrades.

I agree the timing is annoying and I wish I'd waited another month or two before buying, but mine is still an awesome car.

There is some question whether our version can realize some improvement. I saw a post about a left over screen displayed on a new car, it seemed to indicate a factory test in which the power output was significantly higher. We probably have software limits reducing performance. I hope those limits will be relaxed.

Then there is the 1 foot rollout issue. As I understand it, all the current test results include a 1 foot rollout before they start the "0-60" time. So the 5.2 and 4.2 second times are invalid. They are more like 5-60 MPH results. There is still a performance increase but it is not the 1 second they are saying. A true 0-60 time will be significantly longer for both, our cars and the improved cars, but the inappropriate use of rollout in 0-60 testing clouds the actual degree of improvement. Right now it is being presented as a (5.2 - 4.2)/5.2, or a 19.2% performance improvement. The actual improvement will be less than 19.2%. Until someone does some accurate testing without that silly rollout, we won't know the actual improvement.

As far as the EAP goes, I pretty much knew the status when I purchased. I had a pretty good idea that EAP would be fairly slow in getting to the final version with all the features promised. It is improving in just the time I've had the car. I like the EAP even as it is. I think there are other cars currently that are nearly equivalent but I expect the Tesla version to continue to improve while the other cars if purchased at the same time wouldn't continue to improve.

I think we are on the same side here. We'd both rather have waited and we both were unlucky enough to get cars made just days before a significant improvement. I am annoyed as well. I didn't see it coming. I think the only place we might disagree is on the importance of the improvements.

Recognizing that Tesla has a marketing driven problem in providing accurate 0-60 times Is important because it artificially inflates the percentage improvement from the recent performance changes. It also means no current S75D can actually go from standstill to 60 in 4.2 seconds. And if rollout was used when timing our cars, that 5.2 seconds is unrealistically optimistic as well. The best scenario for us would be if rollout was used in the timing of the 4.2 second cars but was not used in the measurement in the 0-60 times for our cars. I'm not sure but the rollout issue became a real marketing thing when the P100D started using inappropriate rollout numbers to get those 2.3 second times. That has been relatively recent. So there is a remote possibility the touted 0-60 performance improvement is largely more marketing smoke and mirrors.

I could be wrong, though. I've been wrong before.

 

[number12]

That depreciation would have occurred whether the performance improvement was delivered now or a year from now. It only makes a difference if you were to sell the car now. I think the depreciation is realized at the time of sale (or the time of loss if it becomes an insurance claim issue).

If you choose to sell the car now in order to purchase a newer one with the 4.2 second 0-60 time, then that full depreciation would be realized.

That depreciation amount, if accurate, will be incorporated into the total depreciation so should ramp down in importance as the car ages and the age of the car becomes the prime determinant of total depreciation. Suppose there is a 10% value loss now, say $7500. When the car otherwise depreciates to half its value, that absolute loss in value will be reduced to half as well. So if you were to sell now and saw a $7500 additional depreciation loss, when the car is otherwise worth half as much, I would expect that additional depreciation to be $3750 or possibly less. It is still a bite but the importance of it should decrease over time.

Say the "half value" occurs in 5 years, for example, and say that is the time you trade the car. I believe the additional $3750 in depreciation would have occurred if the performance increase had happened at any time over that 5 years. So that depreciation isn't linked to the frequency of hardware/performance upgrades.

I agree the timing is annoying and I wish I'd waited another month or two before buying, but mine is still an awesome car.

There is some question whether our version can realize some improvement. I saw a post about a left over screen displayed on a new car, it seemed to indicate a factory test in which the power output was significantly higher. We probably have software limits reducing performance. I hope those limits will be relaxed.

Then there is the 1 foot rollout issue. As I understand it, all the current test results include a 1 foot rollout before they start the "0-60" time. So the 5.2 and 4.2 second times are invalid. They are more like 5-60 MPH results. There is still a performance increase but it is not the 1 second they are saying. A true 0-60 time will be significantly longer for both, our cars and the improved cars, but the inappropriate use of rollout in 0-60 testing clouds the actual degree of improvement. Right now it is being presented as a (5.2 - 4.2)/5.2, or a 19.2% performance improvement. The actual improvement will be less than 19.2%. Until someone does some accurate testing without that silly rollout, we won't know the actual improvement.

As far as the EAP goes, I pretty much knew the status when I purchased. I had a pretty good idea that EAP would be fairly slow in getting to the final version with all the features promised. It is improving in just the time I've had the car. I like the EAP even as it is. I think there are other cars currently that are nearly equivalent but I expect the Tesla version to continue to improve while the other cars if purchased at the same time wouldn't continue to improve.

I think we are on the same side here. We'd both rather have waited and we both were unlucky enough to get cars made just days before a significant improvement. I am annoyed as well. I didn't see it coming. I think the only place we might disagree is on the importance of the improvements.

Recognizing that Tesla has a marketing driven problem in providing accurate 0-60 times Is important because it artificially inflates the percentage improvement from the recent performance changes. It also means no current S75D can actually go from standstill to 60 in 4.2 seconds. And if rollout was used when timing our cars, that 5.2 seconds is unrealistically optimistic as well. The best scenario for us would be if rollout was used in the timing of the 4.2 second cars but was not used in the measurement in the 0-60 times for our cars. I'm not sure but the rollout issue became a real marketing thing when the P100D started using inappropriate rollout numbers to get those 2.3 second times. That has been relatively recent. So there is a remote possibility the touted 0-60 performance improvement is largely more marketing smoke and mirrors.

I could be wrong, though. I've been wrong before.

For people who say depreciation is realized at time of sale must have never a PFS personal financial statement for a bank.

Or any form that says list assets

Doesn't really matter for a car, even a 100k car, but you get the point.

Depreciation in any asset can effect you before you sell it... in multiple ways.

 

[SmartElectric]

STFU!!

Elon, is that you?!

 

[Bluejuice]

It isn't obvious what you dislike about my post. Do you think I should not be responding to maggo321? Or do you think my response is incorrect? Or did I get lumped into IFought4U's rant by mistake?

That was entirely in response to IFought4U's response. So tired of hearing post after post of guys whining that their car is outdated and worthless right after they bought it because of new features that come out. Just fed up. If you don't know Tesla operates this way than don't buy the damn car!!! You got exactly what you paid for when you ordered the car. Now STFU!

 

[City Racer]

The drive unit on these cars is supposed to last 1 million miles. That means if you didn't get the upgrade, you lose time every time you hit the throttle. That's a lot of time lost!

 

[Quick2Judge]

If you don't know Tesla operates this way than don't buy the damn car!!!

Maybe Tesla should make how they operate more clear before they take buyers money?

I spent a year researching Tesla boards and figuring out the game so I could appropriately time up my order. Very happy with my purchase.

Tesla's practice's are upsetting about 15% of buyers (based on a very unscientific poll I posted about a month ago). Wonder if they just officially published that significant upgrades will occur the 1st day of each quarter a significantly less portion of buyers will be upset.

I am not sure requiring buyers to research for months to figure things out before purchasing is really in Tesla's best interests.

 

[Dan60D]

Email from Fremont about my refreshed 60D

Daniel,


Thank you for contacting Tesla Support! Here at Tesla we are constantly pushing the envelope of innovation, which means upgrades will happen and they happen more frequently than other car companies who release vehicle updates on a yearly schedule. Many improvements to your vehicle will be installed via over the air firmware updates loaded with new features and improvements to existing features.



The update to the 0-60 time is a blend of newer hardware and specialized software for that hardware, and is not something that can be upgraded solely via software update to older vehicles. For any information around hardware which can be retrofitted into your vehicle after delivery, please get in touch with your local service department.



If there is any way for software to improve the performance of your vehicle they will definitely be explored and released to you along with the other Tesla owners, however the upgrade you mentioned is not available on your vehicle with the previous hardware revision. I can assure you that in addition to the many great updates your vehicle has already received since delivery there will be many more to improve and enhance the functionality in the future.


If you have any further questions or concerns, you can reach Tesla Support 24/7 at [email protected] or by phone at 1-877-79-TESLA (83752).



Thank you, and have a great day!

 

[D.E.]

For people who say depreciation is realized at time of sale must have never a PFS personal financial statement for a bank.

Or any form that says list assets

Doesn't really matter for a car, even a 100k car, but you get the point.

Depreciation in any asset can effect you before you sell it... in multiple ways.

That is an aspect I hadn't considered. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[number12]

Email from Fremont about my refreshed 60D

Daniel,


Thank you for contacting Tesla Support! Here at Tesla we are constantly pushing the envelope of innovation, which means upgrades will happen and they happen more frequently than other car companies who release vehicle updates on a yearly schedule. Many improvements to your vehicle will be installed via over the air firmware updates loaded with new features and improvements to existing features.



The update to the 0-60 time is a blend of newer hardware and specialized software for that hardware, and is not something that can be upgraded solely via software update to older vehicles. For any information around hardware which can be retrofitted into your vehicle after delivery, please get in touch with your local service department.



If there is any way for software to improve the performance of your vehicle they will definitely be explored and released to you along with the other Tesla owners, however the upgrade you mentioned is not available on your vehicle with the previous hardware revision. I can assure you that in addition to the many great updates your vehicle has already received since delivery there will be many more to improve and enhance the functionality in the future.


If you have any further questions or concerns, you can reach Tesla Support 24/7 at [email protected] or by phone at 1-877-79-TESLA (83752).



Thank you, and have a great day!

Please reply with any findings

 

[Maximilien]

Email from Fremont about my refreshed 60D

Daniel,


Thank you for contacting Tesla Support! Here at Tesla we are constantly pushing the envelope of innovation, which means upgrades will happen and they happen more frequently than other car companies who release vehicle updates on a yearly schedule. Many improvements to your vehicle will be installed via over the air firmware updates loaded with new features and improvements to existing features.



The update to the 0-60 time is a blend of newer hardware and specialized software for that hardware, and is not something that can be upgraded solely via software update to older vehicles. For any information around hardware which can be retrofitted into your vehicle after delivery, please get in touch with your local service department.



If there is any way for software to improve the performance of your vehicle they will definitely be explored and released to you along with the other Tesla owners, however the upgrade you mentioned is not available on your vehicle with the previous hardware revision. I can assure you that in addition to the many great updates your vehicle has already received since delivery there will be many more to improve and enhance the functionality in the future.


If you have any further questions or concerns, you can reach Tesla Support 24/7 at [email protected] or by phone at 1-877-79-TESLA (83752).



Thank you, and have a great day!

So this means for the time being we don't get improved 0 to 60 for early adopters. I was thinking that all the AP 2.0 would get it.

I would just stay optimistic that Tesla can surprise us.

 

[kev1n]

Maybe Tesla should make how they operate more clear before they take buyers money?

I spent a year researching Tesla boards and figuring out the game so I could appropriately time up my order. Very happy with my purchase.

Tesla's practice's are upsetting about 15% of buyers (based on a very unscientific poll I posted about a month ago). Wonder if they just officially published that significant upgrades will occur the 1st day of each quarter a significantly less portion of buyers will be upset.

I am not sure requiring buyers to research for months to figure things out before purchasing is really in Tesla's best interests.

with any big purchase, it should be the responsibility of the person in interest to do their research and get familiar with the product. it boggles my mind that anyone would just go out and buy something this expensive without doing any prior homework.

in the event that they do purchase without researching, that must mean they are satisfied with the said product so im not sure why anyone would be upset a day or week later when they find out something better was released, were or were they not happy with the product when they signed for it? its written out in black and white what they purchased and paid for.

 

[Swift]

with any big purchase, it should be the responsibility of the person in interest to do their research and get familiar with the product. it boggles my mind that anyone would just go out and buy something this expensive without doing any prior homework.

I think you'll find many people who did their research, trusting the Tesla website (via statements and videos there), taking test drives on AP1 cars, etc. They then made purchase/lease decisions based on that information, only to have Tesla not deliver as advertised. Tesla changed the specifics on the website after the fact, but there are plenty of screenshots of the original statements out there.

Also as far as FSD and Tesla's position that the barrier is regulatory approval, they still kinda have to submit something for regulatory approval first. I'm guessing they'll be able to do that by the end of 2017 when Teslas are able to drive coast without intervention (another Tesla statement that I'm sure factored into purchase/lease decisions).

 

[kev1n]

I think you'll find many people who did their research, trusting the Tesla website (via statements and videos there), taking test drives on AP1 cars, etc. They then made purchase/lease decisions based on that information, only to have Tesla not deliver as advertised. Tesla changed the specifics on the website after the fact, but there are plenty of screenshots of the original statements out there.

Also as far as FSD and Tesla's position that the barrier is regulatory approval, they still kinda have to submit something for regulatory approval first. I'm guessing they'll be able to do that by the end of 2017 when Teslas are able to drive coast without intervention (another Tesla statement that I'm sure factored into purchase/lease decisions).

that seems a bit off topic for this thread, this thread is about 0-60 time changes for the 75/75D(becoming quicker by 1 second.) im referring to people that bought the slower model before this change. im pretty sure people that test drove were satisfied by the 5.3 sec or whatever it was to buy the car.

 

[Krash]

that seems a bit off topic for this thread, this thread is about 0-60 time changes for the 75/75D

It would be awesome if one of the moderators would create a master complaints thread and move posts there for us.

 

[Quick2Judge]

Just took delivery of my June 10 USA order.... absolutely beautiful. Spec had a BTX5 and actual battery was the 75 KW / 350 V. Just one more data point looks like the software limited 85's have all been in Europe.

 

[Burnt Toast]

So this means for the time being we don't get improved 0 to 60 for early adopters. I was thinking that all the AP 2.0 would get it.

I would just stay optimistic that Tesla can surprise us.

There is a reference in the hardware thread about an Australian guy who had old drive units and hardware, and got the uncork and full performance.

 

[Dan60D]

There is a reference in the hardware thread about an Australian guy who had old drive units and hardware, and got the uncork and full performance.

Can you post the link?

 

[Krash]

We know that the performance upgrade has nothing to do with the new drive units. Otherwise foreign delivered cars that were produced in May with BTX5 batteries and without drive unit DU00, cars that were uncorked at the local service center before delivery but after July 1st, wouldn't be getting 4.2 second 0-60 (0-100) times.

This is my previous comment...

Can you post the link?

But if you mean my other more detailed summary it is here:
New 0-60 Times caused by new drive unit it seems...