75 and 75D variants increased performance from July 1st - software and hardware improvements?

[Swift]

No customer purchased the FSD feature, as it does not exist and has never existed. Customers purchased access to the FSD feature when it becomes available. Those are different products, akin to purchasing tickets to a concert.

Again I disagree but I'll play along if it makes you feel smarter. How about this? I purchased EAP for HW2. It is around, has existed, but is incomplete. It has not been delivered as promised. I'm still a customer of Tesla's in that context no matter your rationale. Lawyers smarter than both of us agree with that position.

Anyway, you're playing semantics here. Focus on the actual underlying issue regardless of the nomenclature. And don't compare with buying concert tickets.

 

[FlatSix911]

Couple examples off the top of my head, I'm curious what you'd call these if not a "lie":
1. They sold me a flagship car with 691hp and delivered 463hp. When I pointed out to the sales person during a test drive that the car's power meter doesn't even go high enough in KW equivalent, he pointed me to the design Studio note how a "improved passing speed" over the air update is coming - Elon said 691hp so it must be true. So I believed and I shelled out over $100K for a car which would need to produce close to 50% more power to meet the spec. In Norway by the way, Tesla settled with the P85D owners. I got no such settlement offer in the US.
2. They sold me a car which claimed to have 85KWh battery, yet it turns out it was am 81KWh battery of which only 77 are usable. And yes, the spec of the car said 85KWh battery, so I am not extrapolating from the model number designation.

All very valid points ... When dealing with Tesla, Trust but Verify

 

[BBB4000]

Again I disagree but I'll play along if it makes you feel smarter. How about this? I purchased EAP for HW2. It is around, has existed, but is incomplete. It has not been delivered as promised. I'm still a customer of Tesla's in that context no matter your rationale. Lawyers smarter than both of us agree with that position.

Anyway, you're playing semantics here. Focus on the actual underlying issue regardless of the nomenclature. And don't compare with buying concert tickets.

Hahah I totally agree. See my point above. Some people just want others to think they are intelligent.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Tesla has bigger goals than trying to make sure everyone is a happy customer. I'm here with them to support that goal. I want them to make the best possible cars they can and do it as quickly as they can. Take no prisoners. I do think their honesty might be a little questionable though. They aren't perfect and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[FlatSix911]

I feel a bit annoyed by Tesla. Car is 6 months old and they already discontinued my model 60, made many options standard (automated trunk) and now they increased speed. I understand all your arguments about how Tesla constantly updates. But at the end of the day: Am I happy with these changes they keep making? Will I ever be comfortable buying another one? 6 month old car and I shouldn't be feeling buyers remorse. I bet an interior refresh is coming in the next few months. Talk about salt on the wounds.

I hope we get a mild bump in speed via firmware update. Im sure this car can put out a faster 0-60 (which I DO feel like it needs)

Not likely according to Electrek ... Tesla upgrades its electric motor on the road to have powertrains lasting 1 million miles

We now learn that the new hardware includes an updated version of Tesla’s rear drive unit. The automaker builds 3 different electric motors: a main rear-wheel-drive motor, a smaller front-wheel-drive motor used in dual motor versions of the Model S and Model X, and another bigger “performance version” rear-wheel-drive motor.

After updating the performance specs this weekend, Tesla changed the parts number of its main rear-wheel-drive motor. Subsequently, all the versions affected by the upgrade are equipped with this motor, while all the vehicles without it, the Model S P100D and Model X P100D, haven’t received any performance enhancements.

The company didn’t want to comment on the new drive unit, but it would have to be a significant update since it’s enabling a quicker 0 to 60 mph acceleration by over 1 full second. Tesla’s drive units are built using a patented assembly process that includes having an electric motor, a power inverter assembly and a gearbox into a single, multi-piece enclosure – pictured above and below...

 

[Mike75d]

There's no reason to believe the increased power will stick. A few month from now Tesla may find that the small motors can't handle the extra power from the new inverter and poof there goes your extra power. At least they didn't charge $10,000 for the extra power.

All model S use the same 310kw rear motor since 2012, the P models have a hand wound motor. The 60D/75D have the same motors as the 100D capable of producing at least a combined 510hp from the two motors. These motors can handle much more power than current output

 

[gabeincal]

So what happens if I need a DU replacement in my mid-2016 S75? Do I get the new DU but not a software-enabled bump in acceleration?

 

[Mike75d]

Did anyone answer the question about the Motor Trends rollout? Tesla in the past used the roll out to artificially lower the "P" 0-60 to show bigger difference between P and non-P (gotta justify those extra 10's of thousands of dollars somehow). The latest improvements seem to use that technique. Did the 75/75D prior to this latest announcement also use the rollout (sadly I don't remember when I was getting my 60D which eventually turned into 75D)?

Also, to cheer some of you guys out, this could be just another Elon hype. Elon/Tesla promised 10s quarter-mile for P85D which really burned a hold in P85 owners stomachs, but P85D 10s quarter mile never materialized - Elon must have calculated it assuming the 691hp which was a total and complete BS he must have overheard from some engineer and turned it into an official spec - or he just pulled it out of hiss you know what so he can sell more cars.

So, chin up 75 owners, Tesla lies about specs all the time, especially when it comes to performance. Just wait for the threads on "Where is the 4.2s 0-60 on my new 75D?". Oh, full disclosure, I got a 75D also, really don't expect the new 75's to have that much more power, if any, except MAYBE in some limited conditions (like if you all the stars are aligned and Elon himself is standing withing 1000ft), and let's not forget, only available for x number of launches, then the car will protect its drive-train and not let you ever do it again (like the Ludicrous upgrade) - that's for your own good you know.

Did anyone answer the question about the Motor Trends rollout? Tesla in the past used the roll out to artificially lower the "P" 0-60 to show bigger difference between P and non-P (gotta justify those extra 10's of thousands of dollars somehow). The latest improvements seem to use that technique. Did the 75/75D prior to this latest announcement also use the rollout (sadly I don't remember when I was getting my 60D which eventually turned into 75D)?

Also, to cheer some of you guys out, this could be just another Elon hype. Elon/Tesla promised 10s quarter-mile for P85D which really burned a hold in P85 owners stomachs, but P85D 10s quarter mile never materialized - Elon must have calculated it assuming the 691hp which was a total and complete BS he must have overheard from some engineer and turned it into an official spec - or he just pulled it out of hiss you know what so he can sell more cars.

So, chin up 75 owners, Tesla lies about specs all the time, especially when it comes to performance. Just wait for the threads on "Where is the 4.2s 0-60 on my new 75D?". Oh, full disclosure, I got a 75D also, really don't expect the new 75's to have that much more power, if any, except MAYBE in some limited conditions (like if you all the stars are aligned and Elon himself is standing withing 1000ft), and let's not forget, only available for x number of launches, then the car will protect its drive-train and not let you ever do it again (like the Ludicrous upgrade) - that's for your own good you know.

The rollout method is standard in USA for testing 0-60.
The P85D made 400hp on a dyno (around 470 engine power) but... an equivalent weight car would require more than 691hp to run an 11.00et. The P85D had a torque advantage. The 10.99 quote from Tesla was accurate for the standard aluminium roof car, most people optioned the cars up with glass roof etc adding weight to the vehicle. Tesla actually under quote 0-60 more often than not. Ford have been known to do this with their Turbo cars in order to still sell their v8 models.

 

[TIppy]

All model S use the same 310kw rear motor since 2012, the P models have a hand wound motor. The 60D/75D have the same motors as the 100D capable of producing at least a combined 510hp from the two motors. These motors can handle much more power than current output

Service manual says a base large motor is 285 KW while the performance variant is 375 KW. For the small motors, it's 145 KW for the base and 193 KW for the performance variant.

The D cars have 376 hp and are using the base small motors front and back. The small performance motor is used on the awd performance cars. On those cars the rear motors do the heavy lifting, so the front performance motors haven't been subject to a lot of stress. Even if they go with the small performance motors front and rear on the new 75D, I don't know if we have a lot of information on the durability of that setup.

 

[wbeck]

I just took deliver of my 75D over the weekend. I have been told that AWD cars is a software only update. RWD is new hardware as well.

A tech at the service center said there would be a software upgrade to enable these quicker times and it would be available to all.

Not sure if this is true but offers some hope.

Regardless this is the most amazing car with or without the faster 0-60

 

[turbosimon]

I just took deliver of my 75D over the weekend. I have been told that AWD cars is a software only update. RWD is new hardware as well.

A tech at the service center said there would be a software upgrade to enable these quicker times and it would be available to all.

Not sure if this is true but offers some hope.

Regardless this is the most amazing car with or without the faster 0-60

Wow, it will be awesome if that is true. How can we confirm that with Tesla?

 

[Dan60D]

Wow, it will be awesome if that is true. How can we confirm that with Tesla?

I really wish this is true!!

 

[MP3Mike]

How can we confirm that with Tesla?

Wait until the firmware is released that actually decreases the 0-60 time for existing cars.

 

[turbosimon]

I just took deliver of my 75D over the weekend. I have been told that AWD cars is a software only update. RWD is new hardware as well.

A tech at the service center said there would be a software upgrade to enable these quicker times and it would be available to all.

Not sure if this is true but offers some hope.

Regardless this is the most amazing car with or without the faster 0-60

I have a 75D with build date of 6/21/2017. Just got an email from my Tesla Owner Advisor saying "It is not upgradeable due to the fact that it is a hardware and firmware change. The new performance is only for cars starting production July 1st."
Hopefully your tech guy is right. I guess I will have to wait for the next firmware update.

 

[jelloslug]

I just took deliver of my 75D over the weekend. I have been told that AWD cars is a software only update. RWD is new hardware as well.

A tech at the service center said there would be a software upgrade to enable these quicker times and it would be available to all.

Not sure if this is true but offers some hope.

Regardless this is the most amazing car with or without the faster 0-60

I will believe that when I see it. I hope I will see it....

 

[scottm]

What if Model 3 could do 0-60 in 4 seconds, base model? .. no usable frunk space, no hatch, no instrument cluster... cloth seats, steel roof. Nifty aero wheels. But fast! If that's what you want then there's your car... willing to wait 2 years for it?

The fact that my model S is fast (and it's slow by comparison to today's versions) is a bonus, not the main buying point.

 

[DIL]

For me the motor change makes the base 75 a very appealing sports sedan, with the dynamic benefits of RWD including correct weight distribution and ability to rotate a bit on turns. It's as fast as a 2017 BMW 550i. Someone needs to test 40-60 passing times.

 

[Mickie]

One thing's for sure: if they work to make all the "D" cars dating back to inception faster than they already are via OTA update, it would certainly quell a lot of the buyers remorse banter due to constant innovation going around, give these as well as future "on the fence" customers confidence in a purchase and be simply amazing at least from a marketing standpoint.

Wishful thinking fueled tangent finished.

 

[Mbenz528i]

One thing's for sure: if they work to make all the "D" cars dating back to inception faster than they already are via OTA update, it would certainly quell a lot of the buyers remorse banter due to constant innovation going around, give these as well as future "on the fence" customers confidence in a purchase and be simply amazing at least from a marketing standpoint.

Wishful thinking fueled tangent finished.

I agree that this would be a really nice bonus for customer loyalty. I am sure many would even pay for it.

 

[whitex]

The rollout method is standard in USA for testing 0-60.

I think you missed the point, which was that measuring 0-60 using the rollout for car A and directly comparing it to car B acceleration measured not using the rollout is deceiving. Tesla used to publish 0-60 numbers for non-P cars measured without the rollout, and put then in the same row in comparison tables as P car numbers measured with the rollout, then claiming that P was 1.0+ faster, where in fact it was not. It took some time to even get them to put a footnote in note that P cars were measured differently - the whole thing was designed to get people to pay $20K for "P" cars by implying they were much faster than non-P.

The P85D made 400hp on a dyno (around 470 engine power) but... an equivalent weight car would require more than 691hp to run an 11.00et.

Lol, that made me laugh as it's a new one. From 0-5mph P85D accelerates as fast as 1200hp cars, it doesn't give Tesla the right to claim 1200hp. Power is a very clearly defined metric, you don't get to publish some equivalencies as actual HP numbers. Tesla lied or committed to a spec before knowing they can deliver it - the resulting problem is they took money for it but then didn't deliver. They settled in Norway because there the government foots the bill for consumer protection, while in the US they are just betting on the fact that not too many people buy the top of the line Tesla, so the client pool for a class action would be too small, and individually it's definitely not worth paying for lawyers to try to get compensated.

The 10.99 quote from Tesla was accurate for the standard aluminium roof car, most people optioned the cars up with glass roof etc adding weight to the vehicle.

Even people with solid roof could not go under 11s in a quarter mile in P85D. You can find videos on the internet of people trying. Still, 11s was an Elon tweet, so not an official spec - 691hp was on Tesla pages including Design Studio.