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One of the stated guiding principals in the development of the Model S was that it was to look, feel, and act like a normal car that just happened to be powered by electricity.
That's all well and good, but if it costs 3x what an otherwise-equivalent car would cost it is not comparable. Do you really believe that
it being electric is not a primary factor in the majority of Tesla owners' purchase decisions thus far?
 
That's all well and good, but if it costs 3x what an otherwise-equivalent car would cost it is not comparable. Do you really believe that
it being electric is not a primary factor in the majority of Tesla owners' purchase decisions thus far?
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at because you're putting words in my mouth and arguing against those words you made up.

The point was Tesla is making good cars that look and act like cars people are familiar with. The idea being the quirky "I'M ELECTRIC" vehicles like the i3 are purposefully limiting their market. The decision process I made to buy my car didn't affect how Tesla designed the Model S. How could it? It, by necessity, had to be designed before I purchased it.

I'm not saying anything groundbreaking here. Elon has stated definitively that this was always the plan, and is observable given how normal the Model S and X look and behave relative to other pure EVs released thus far, and their similarity to other higher-end ICEs.

To bring it back around -- That category of buyer: those who want a car like those they're familiar with, but maybe powered by electricity (in other words, the target market for the Model 3), are not going to be happy with our infotainment system. Tesla's mostly been dealing with the early-adopter set up to this point, who as a whole are more tolerant of these kinds of deficiencies.
 
The idea being the quirky "I'M ELECTRIC" vehicles like the i3 are purposefully limiting their market.
Just a quick defense of the i3. The problem with the i3 is that the original design brief was for a mega-city car. I drive mine as "city car" and it's excellent in the city.

The quirky styling is not a function of "I'm electric", it's a function of a very short and narrow wheelbase which still has an amazing amount of people and cargo capability. The i3 can squeeze through narrow spots, park in a small space and make a U turn almost anywhere. It is far nicer to drive in the city than the wide and long MS which has a very large turning radius. The designers did a great job of meeting the design brief, but the marketing guys totally messed up because there was no market for the car in mega-cities and the market it was eventually sent out to address (California et al compliance) could not be more different than a mega-city (i.e., Calif's freeways versus Rome's alleys).
 
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Just a quick defense of the i3. The problem with the i3 is that the original design brief was for a mega-city car. I drive mine as "city car" and it's excellent in the city.

The quirky styling is not a function of "I'm electric", it's a function of a very short and narrow wheelbase which still has an amazing amount of people and cargo capability. The i3 can squeeze through narrow spots, park in a small space and make a U turn almost anywhere. It is far nicer to drive in the city than the wide and long MS which has a very large turning radius. The designers did a great job of meeting the design brief, but the marketing guys totally messed up because there was no market for the car in mega-cities and the market it was eventually sent out to address (California et al compliance) could not be more different than a mega-city (i.e., Calif's freeways versus Rome's alleys).
That all may be true, but it still looks like a mess. Tried to convince myself I could stand it as a second car, but I couldn't so got eGolf, which IMO is the only tolerably styled non tesla EV.
 
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What's surprising is that a company and a CEO with such strong ties to Silicon Valley hasn't considered the software usability and functionality as important as the car's hardware.

Yes, the 17" touchscreen is gigantic - and looks fantastic with Google maps displayed.

Yes, the UI looks nice - with nice buttons and graphics.

But beyond that, the functionality is weak (compared to other vehicles - with many owners mounting their smartphones and using those than the on board software) and the usability creates unnecessary distractions for the driver (while the car is in motion).

While some blame on the state of the released software could fall on the software developers, Tesla's quality assurance team, and Tesla's hand-picked beta testers, ultimately the responsibility falls upward to Tesla management - that they have continued to allow this to happen.

After 4 years, we are still getting releases with less-than-expected functionality for the core apps, and are released with significant bugs, causing a start-stop-resume release distribution process as they find and then fix major problems.

It was understandable Tesla had to make some compromises 4 years ago - in order to get the first Model S cars on the road - but we're 4 years later, and the software situation hasn't improved.

And, I agree with the comments from other posters - Model 3 owners will likely not accept this - they want a car that works - and at that price point provide comparable capabilities to the other cars, and just happens to also be electric.
 
What's surprising is that a company and a CEO with such strong ties to Silicon Valley hasn't considered the software usability and functionality as important as the car's hardware.

Yes, the 17" touchscreen is gigantic - and looks fantastic with Google maps displayed.

Yes, the UI looks nice - with nice buttons and graphics.

But beyond that, the functionality is weak (compared to other vehicles - with many owners mounting their smartphones and using those than the on board software) and the usability creates unnecessary distractions for the driver (while the car is in motion).

While some blame on the state of the released software could fall on the software developers, Tesla's quality assurance team, and Tesla's hand-picked beta testers, ultimately the responsibility falls upward to Tesla management - that they have continued to allow this to happen.

After 4 years, we are still getting releases with less-than-expected functionality for the core apps, and are released with significant bugs, causing a start-stop-resume release distribution process as they find and then fix major problems.

It was understandable Tesla had to make some compromises 4 years ago - in order to get the first Model S cars on the road - but we're 4 years later, and the software situation hasn't improved.

And, I agree with the comments from other posters - Model 3 owners will likely not accept this - they want a car that works - and at that price point provide comparable capabilities to the other cars, and just happens to also be electric.
While I am as frustrated as anyone about media player USB failings, I think your market assessment is incorrect.

Bmw had the most unusable UI with that stupid knob for a decade. Their forums were even more poisonous. But they had the IT car and dominated market share in their class.

Among those who can afford it, the S/X is the IT car right now. If you have one, you are cool. I'm not saying this because that's what I think, I'm saying this because that's always been the magic that puts luxury/sport cars in market share pole position. With Tesla, it's maybe a little about electric, a little about styling, a little about A new marque. Most people shop on emotion and status, with a tip of the hat to feature lists. This is evident in sales vs every other car in class. On my block, there are now 8. There are not 8 of anything else. I talk to these people as ballast to this forum, which none of them frequent. Re UI, they all think it's cool, and they like that they get updates. Then they always ask, but how do you do xxxx? But on the whole, they like.

I project that the 3 will initially have same appeal. It will be the IT car for another financial strata of buyers. Just as the 3 series BMW was in the 80s. From nowhere to top of the charts. Even if Bolt were better in a lot of ways, just isn't sexy and doesn't confer status.

I believe the risk point for tesla is a) if the 3 has significant reliability flaws, and B) around 2020, when true competitors show up.

Unfortunately, this means we cannot rely on market pressure to fix the media player issues, we have to rely on Tesla to do it because they care about perfection and right vs wrong. Hope they do!
 
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I just saw this thread since I don't visit this forum much now. There have been similar discussions on the Tesla forum. People have come up with solutions for most of those issues. Here is one I wrote to use folders and sub-folders to arrange and access music files. I find not only it works it actually works better than the artist search as we've been doing in 7.x, at least for me. Take a look if that could help you too. You can ask question there if you have any. I may not see your question here and reply soon enough.

The definitive thread of using folders to organize and access your USB music files. | Tesla Motors

Also some mentioned you can reboot the screen with USB stick plugged in and turn energy saving off to stop the car from reloading the USB every time you start the car.
 
What's surprising is that a company and a CEO with such strong ties to Silicon Valley hasn't considered the software usability and functionality as important as the car's hardware.
Elon has no good experience with UI/UX. He was fired from the CEO job at PayPal in 2000, in part because he wanted to migrate from Unix to MS Windows. Elon's pre-Tesla experience taught him nothing about UI. I personally have always found PayPal to have a very poor UI, just as bad today as it was 10yrs ago. So I'm disappointed, but not surprised that Elon has built a team which doesn't understand UI. They've designed a great chassis/drivetrain and I enjoy driving the car. But in the area of UI/UX, which is increasingly important as other differentiators fade away (e.g., all luxury EVs will be fast), Tesla has not excelled.

around 2020, when true competitors show up.
I completely agree that 2020 is when the Tesla monopoly will be completely over and Tesla will find out how many "loyal" customers it has, versus how many people were simply early adopters buying the only luxury EV platform available. However, I think we'll see some other very real cars in 2018-2019. There is nothing in the current Tesla customer service model (cars waiting two weeks at an SvC for annual service, ICE loaners, s/w releases which regress functionality) which suggests they will have developed a loyal following.

I consider myself to be an opportunistic car buyer with no brand loyalty whatsoever. I've had good and bad experiences with most every manufacturer, none stand out as particularly bad or good (though VW/Audi has dug a pretty big hole for themselves). Lexus for example has cars which don't really excite me, but when I owned one the customer service was outstanding. I like to buy the best product available (I've owned every major marque), and today it's Tesla for a luxury EV. The other mfgs are going to school on Tesla and as I've written before, the first mover is frequently left in the dust when the real competition shows up.
 
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I just saw this thread since I don't visit this forum much now. There have been similar discussions on the Tesla forum. People have come up with solutions for most of those issues. Here is one I wrote to use folders and sub-folders to arrange and access music files. I find not only it works it actually works better than the artist search as we've been doing in 7.x, at least for me. Take a look if that could help you too. You can ask question there if you have any. I may not see your question here and reply soon enough.
This is certainly a work around to the problems in the Media Player, but why is it Tesla can't just start with copying the functionality from a ten year old iPod? Artists, genre's, playlists, etc.? This isn't virgin territory. My 2010 Mercedes at least emulated an old iPod. Or just implement CarPlay/Android Auto and pass the entire problem to Apple/Google while focusing Tesla resources on things that can really differentiate the car?
 
This is certainly a work around to the problems in the Media Player, but why is it Tesla can't just start with copying the functionality from a ten year old iPod? Artists, genre's, playlists, etc.? This isn't virgin territory. My 2010 Mercedes at least emulated an old iPod. Or just implement CarPlay/Android Auto and pass the entire problem to Apple/Google while focusing Tesla resources on things that can really differentiate the car?
Because autopilot 2.0.

The cars will drive themselves but you'll be driven crazy my the media player.
 
Elon has no good experience with UI/UX. He was fired from the CEO job at PayPal in 2000, in part because he wanted to migrate from Unix to MS Windows. Elon's pre-Tesla experience taught him nothing about UI. I personally have always found PayPal to have a very poor UI, just as bad today as it was 10yrs ago. So I'm disappointed, but not surprised that Elon has built a team which doesn't understand UI. They've designed a great chassis/drivetrain and I enjoy driving the car. But in the area of UI/UX, which is increasingly important as other differentiators fade away (e.g., all luxury EVs will be fast), Tesla has not excelled.
If you think Elon is sitting with the UI/UX team telling them what needs to be in there as a CEO you're delusional. If you completely pinned it on the UI/UX team, that may have merit. I, fortunately, came in after 7.0 and just looking at the UI prior thought it looked horrible. Are there design failures? Sure. The missteps in Media Player and Navigation show but it is headed in the right direction.
 
AP 2.0 could be the "killer app" that will discourage defections of Model 3 reservations to Bolt. However, because of the increased cost of AP 2.0, it's not clear how many Model 3 owners will be willing to add $8K onto the price of their $35K car, for AP 2.0.

There are NOT workarounds to the UI flaws in 8.0, the interface is more difficult to use for operations some drivers do frequently (such as selecting different media sources). It's likely Tesla will fix those, just like it implemented a few "improvements" to the 7.0 UI, after it was released (restoring the clock to the dashboard display).

Even with AP 2.0, Tesla still needs to improve the capabilities and usability of the "infotainment" software.
 
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However, because of the increased cost of AP 2.0, it's not clear how many Model 3 owners will be willing to add $8K onto the price of their $35K car, for AP 2.0.
TBH if I were configuring today, I wouldn't drop the coin for self-driving, considering Tesla can't currently deliver it. I'd wait until they actually had the feature available to deliver, then pay the extra $1k to enable it after the initial purchase. I think that's a big advantage in Tesla's pricing model; TBD if the buying public at large agrees.