85 y/o man died in his Tesla after he drove into a pool.

[AWDtsla]

I have some insight in the brake/accel pedal mixup thing. I've done it once before in my Tesla, and i'm not elderly (41). Fortunately, there was nothing but yard in front of me... but it was scary. What I think people don't realize is the exact process which happens, and why these accidents can be so bad like this one.

If you have your foot on the brake, and your car starts moving -- what is your natural instinct? Press harder on the brake. That's what's happening. Even before you can process what's happening.

In your head:

- I'm pressing the brake
- Oh crap, the car is still moving. I need to press harder.
- Suddenly you are flooring the accelerator before you even think about it
- X moments later. Oh crap, I'm pressing the accelerator. Then you let go and slam the brake.

The "X" moments reaction time may vary depending on how old you are etc.... and in a Tesla, you will be moving pretty fast.

This instinct should have been dealt with very early in life.

Imagine everything else that goes wrong when you respond incorrectly to your own behavior. Driving is only small slice. Negative feedback = control. Positive feedback = Chernobyl reactor exploding. Sadly I know someone that does this to chicken. "What do you mean it's tough and inedible? I cooked it even longer in the pressure cooker!!! What should I do? I don't know... It's like I've tried nothing and gotten no results and it's time to give up"


edit - </misanthropy>

 

[musicious]

I forgot to mention my previous car (Subaru with Eyesight technology which is stereoscopic cameras for lane tracking, adaptive cruise, preemptive braking /collision avoidance etc) had Pre-Collision Throttle Management specifically to prevent accidents like this. If you are in front of a large object while stopped (car in a parking space, brick wall, etc) and push the accelerator in the direction of that object, it basically reduces the acceleration to the level of creep (if moving at high speed and you accelerate close to a slower/stopped object, it stops the throttle and applies the brakes). Tesla could easily implement something similar.

 

[joek]

This instinct should have been dealt with very early in life.

Imagine everything else that goes wrong when you respond incorrectly to your own behavior. Driving is only small slice. Negative feedback = control. Positive feedback = Chernobyl reactor exploding. Sadly I know someone that does this to chicken. "What do you mean it's tough and inedible? I cooked it even longer in the pressure cooker!!! What should I do? I don't know... It's like I've tried nothing and gotten no results and it's time to give up"


edit - </misanthropy>

We're talking reflex, not planned behavior. You sitting in your car w foot on brake and it starts moving, I guarentee your body will press harder before you can process anything.

Simialry, if you arn't slowing down as fast as you want to be you'll press harder. It's not some absurd reflex, it's just basic driving muscle memory.

 

[Thumper]

I strongly recommend left foot braking. It has many advantages. First, in traffic situations when you many need to brake suddenly, it gets your foot to the brake significantly sooner if you keep it poised. Second, people who learn to left foot brake have left foot sensitivity which makes it easier for them to learn to use a clutch. Third, you will not get the pedals mixed up. Go Kart racers and Formula One driver use it to great effect. There is no downside. I know stick shift is a giant anachronism.

 

[ecarfan]

Thumper, with Tesla's excellent regenerative braking and outstanding low speed throttle control, I see no need for using the left foot for braking.
99% of the time I am driving my S I don't use the brake.
I'm in Utah right now and it is bloody cold. This morning the battery was so cold that for 40 minutes I had no regen braking (car was only charged to about 85%). Man did I miss it, it was like driving an ICE going downhill! New experience for me, since I live near San Francisco and the climate is moderate.

 

[Ampster]

I rarely charge to 100% in my Smart for that reason.

 

[Dbitter1]

Sixth (?) Tesla fatality

Poor man. Condolences to the family.

Elderly man dies after crashing car into pool

I'm not sure how this one could have been engineered any differently to save him.

 

[Bill D]

If someone is accidentally accelerating a Model S, what happens if the passenger (or driver) hits the Park button on the Shifter Stalk?

 

[tomas]

nothing, thank goodness. that's the wiper wash button on my other car, and believe me I've done that more than once.

 

[musicious]

If someone is accidentally accelerating a Model S, what happens if the passenger (or driver) hits the Park button on the Shifter Stalk?

I believe if the passenger pulls the stalk up to 'reverse' at high speed it will put it in neutral, might have helped limit the impact but Tesla accelerates so quick I wish they had the precollision throttle management like my subaru did

 

[woof]

If someone is accidentally accelerating a Model S, what happens if the passenger (or driver) hits the Park button on the Shifter Stalk?

Not much if you just press it and let go. But if you hold it down it activates the emergency brake. However, it doesn't overpower the accelerator pedal.

 

[tomas]

Not much if you just press it and let go. But if you hold it down it activates the emergency brake. However, it doesn't overpower the accelerator pedal.

And you discovered this how?

 

[cwerdna]

I have some insight in the brake/accel pedal mixup thing. I've done it once before in my Tesla, and i'm not elderly (41). Fortunately, there was nothing but yard in front of me... but it was scary. What I think people don't realize is the exact process which happens, and why these accidents can be so bad like this one.

If you have your foot on the brake, and your car starts moving -- what is your natural instinct? Press harder on the brake. That's what's happening. Even before you can process what's happening.

In your head:

- I'm pressing the brake
- Oh crap, the car is still moving. I need to press harder.
- Suddenly you are flooring the accelerator before you even think about it
- X moments later. Oh crap, I'm pressing the accelerator. Then you let go and slam the brake.

The "X" moments reaction time may vary depending on how old you are etc.... and in a Tesla, you will be moving pretty fast.

This instinct should have been dealt with very early in life.

Imagine everything else that goes wrong when you respond incorrectly to your own behavior. Driving is only small slice. Negative feedback = control. Positive feedback = Chernobyl reactor exploding. Sadly I know someone that does this to chicken. "What do you mean it's tough and inedible? I cooked it even longer in the pressure cooker!!! What should I do? I don't know... It's like I've tried nothing and gotten no results and it's time to give up"

AWDtsla, did you read the UCLA piece I cited at 85 y/o man died in his Tesla after he drove into a pool., included the bolded part?

 

[AWDtsla]

AWDtsla, did you read the UCLA piece I cited at 85 y/o man died in his Tesla after he drove into a pool., included the bolded part?

Yup. You start out bad, and keep getting worse. C'est la vie. Except for them keeping their license, something should be done about that.

Fortunately, you can be old now and still (maybe) have time left to get into an autonomous car. No license required.

 

[thecloud]

Yup. You start out bad, and keep getting worse. C'est la vie. Except for them keeping their license, something should be done about that.

Fortunately, you can be old now and still (maybe) have time left to get into an autonomous car. No license required.

In California, you'll need a license plus extra training and an "autonomous vehicle operator certificate," if the currently proposed regulations are adopted.

 

[mcmelch]

Man dies after crashing Tesla into pool

Man dies after crashing Tesla into pool - Houston Chronicle

 

[Carl Leermakers]

I wish there was a hypermiler/eco mode

I let a youngster use the Tesla in "Valet" mode the other day; and then I completely forgot it was in Valet mode and I drove the two next days like that. Quite a comfortable ride actually - with only around 30% of its power, the Tesla drives like a 'normal' car . Speed limited to 115 km/h (like a 1973 VW Beetle).

 

[MsElectric]

I have some insight in the brake/accel pedal mixup thing. I've done it once before in my Tesla, and i'm not elderly (41). Fortunately, there was nothing but yard in front of me... but it was scary. What I think people don't realize is the exact process which happens, and why these accidents can be so bad like this one.

If you have your foot on the brake, and your car starts moving -- what is your natural instinct? Press harder on the brake. That's what's happening. Even before you can process what's happening.

In your head:

- I'm pressing the brake
- Oh crap, the car is still moving. I need to press harder.
- Suddenly you are flooring the accelerator before you even think about it
- X moments later. Oh crap, I'm pressing the accelerator. Then you let go and slam the brake.

The "X" moments reaction time may vary depending on how old you are etc.... and in a Tesla, you will be moving pretty fast.

^^^ This. The few times this has happened to me, this is exactly how it played out.

It is silly people are extrapolating my suggestion to claim that a car can't protect the occupants in every scenario. I of course agree with that. My point is a modern car with advanced sensors should not drive through a brick wall from a complete stop without at least making sure the driver actually wants to drive forward.

Like I said earlier, if the radar thinks there is a wall ahead, the ultrasonic sensors think there is a wall ahead, and the camera thinks there is a wall ahead, then perhaps maybe there is a wall ahead and software can prevent someone from accidentally going through that wall. It is a freak incident but this has happened multiple times before.

And for those who would not want such a feature, make it an option. There could be an option called "Low Speed Crash Avoidance Mode" that specifically prevents you from accelerating into an obstacle from a complete stop or 2 < mph. This will be really useful also in tight garages as the car can sense before hitting an obstacle front, back, or to the sides.

 

[Bill D]

I believe if the passenger pulls the stalk up to 'reverse' at high speed it will put it in neutral, might have helped limit the impact but Tesla accelerates so quick I wish they had the precollision throttle management like my subaru did

Not much if you just press it and let go. But if you hold it down it activates the emergency brake. However, it doesn't overpower the accelerator pedal.

It sounds like the disaster would be minimized if the passenger reached over with their left hand to press the stalk up and hold the button. I've let several folks drive my MS and wondered about those old pull-up emergency brake handles that used to be in sports cars on the floor between the driver and passenger seats.

My 89 year old aunt still drives and is a tech junkie. She flew in to visit us recently and having read much about Tesla, she wanted a ride in my P90DL. Before I backed out of the driveway my wife softly said to me through the driver's window "no launches, she has a pacemaker", which inspired my aunt to insist on a some launches (she also has good hearing). She's still talking about that 0-100 launch and the autopilot. Luckily she didn't ask me if she could drive because I probably would have let her.

 

[Mark Z]

With regenerative braking, my reflex to stop is to lift my foot off the pedal, then only hit the brake when needed.

If the driver had just lifted his foot in time, the car would come to a complete stop before the pool, especially with creep off.