A Bit Shady?

[Rebel]

Ordered Tesla Solar Panels back in May - took about 5 months to get everything in line with paperwork and permits to application.
Finally got scheduled to get a install for tomorrow 9/28. After reading all the horry stories around here wanted to make sure everything was in line.
Called my electric comany National Grid (RI) regarding if they had all the paperwork they needed for the Install tomorrow for approval.
Suprise Surpise.... they had nothing on record... back to the Tesla Line we go.

Called Tesla they where honost and told me that they have a great relationship with National Grid that they wouldn't have any problems getting approved for my Panels, but the paperwork has not been filed with them but they are going forward with it anyways - the rep said they take full responsiblity if it gets denied. I guess the push these installs through without the proper paperwork for approval sometimes??

Any thoughts on this - my gut says to back out of this mess before I get too deep.

 

[jjrandorin]

I am not sure where in the process the installer company applies with the utility, but the utility usually isnt a huge roadblock. If they dont like something, the installer has to fix it so that you get permission to operate. I wouldnt stop an install just because the installer (tesla or otherwise) had not applied to the utility yet.

Note that I am not making any other proclamations or anything, just that, that reason is not one I would stop my install.

 

[Ampster]

Any thoughts on this

My utility requires a final inspection from the local building officials for the PTO application to be considered complete. Why would you stop part of the process to get there? Does it matter whether Tesla does it in one step after final inspection or in several steps? Most contracts allow contractors some control over methods and means. Do you have leverage in the contract via the payment schedule to hold back some payment until the PTO is complete or approved?

 

[arnolddeleon]

It seems Tesla is now using "non-exporting" configurations while waiting for permission to operate (PTO). Basically once a system passes local inspection they allow the customer to turn on the system and basically "self-consume" any production. This is reduces (in some cases practically eliminates) the impact of waiting for PTO.

A non-export configurations limits solar production to match the load on the house. If there are Powerwalls then it stores the excess production there until they are full and it uses the Powerwall to extent that the configuration allows.

This is based on the configuration and operation that been recently reported on this forum.

 

[Southpasfan]

That's not a "surprise" at all. Note that you can read up around here and you will find that its not the utility that issues a building permit, its the city/county where you live.

I would be surprised if Tesla was going forward without a building permit (which, in Tesla's system, the customer does not see unless you ask for the plans), but its not surprising at all that the utility knows nothing about the install being tomorrow.

Typically, the utility raises its head after installation - now you can read up quite a bit on that! Many here think Tesla should have more "secret sauce" than they do in terms of getting utilities to sign off on construction - but really its hard to say if some other installer would do better.

Some utilities require an interconnection agreement before permitting, but in the City of Los Angeles you don't need that if the system is smaller than a certain size, so here, people could be on the day of install and not even realize the utility had been contacted.

 

[wjgjr]

While I do not know what is typical (and the CA folks seem to have a different process,) at least around here the utility is definitely involved before construction and requires an "Approval to Install" to proceed, and there are at least potentially consequences for not doing so. Doing a very quick look at national grid, it does appear they similarly conduct a review before install. So, while I probably would still proceed, I would not be quite so sanguine about it as others. Something from Tesla in writing acknowledging they are accepting the risk would be helpful. I would also want to understand when Tesla is expecting payment relative to submission of any paperwork that might normally be due before install.

I suspect the most likely outcome - by far - would be that there is just a longer delay to get PTO as the utility will likely still need to process all the paperwork according to their schedules. With how backed up Tesla is, I would definitely be expecting a very lengthy PTO process.

However, there are some other things to check. There are small areas throughout our service area where solar cannot be installed because the equipment can't support it (either at all, or due to the amount of solar already installed.) Our utility has an online map for this, so you can get an idea if it is likely a risk. The other possible issue is NEM or other program eligibility. In our case, the application includes obtaining NEM eligibility, so installing first means running the risk the program fills. As our area is still a couple years from that, it is not a major concern, but I do not know what the situation is where you are.

 

[sk00]

It seems Tesla is now using "non-exporting" configurations while waiting for permission to operate (PTO). Basically once a system passes local inspection they allow the customer to turn on the system and basically "self-consume" any production. This is reduces (in some cases practically eliminates) the impact of waiting for PTO.

A non-export configurations limits solar production to match the load on the house. If there are Powerwalls then it stores the excess production there until they are full and it uses the Powerwall to extent that the configuration allows.

This is based on the configuration and operation that been recently reported on this forum.

Curious who has this "non-exporting" config. Mine was installed in mid July and still awaiting PTO, and it's definitely exporting excess power to the grid. So I have to be careful if I leave it on. Everyone from Tesla (with the exception of installers) tell me to keep the system off till PTO.

 

[djlandkpl]

I have National Grid MA. When I added PW to my existing solar system in 2019, I had to sign a NG interconnection application before any work started. They need to size the transformer that supplies your house to be sure it can handle the backfeed. One of my neighbors added a solar system which caused NG to replace the transformer as there were already 2 homes on the transformer with panels.

 

[Rebel]

That's not a "surprise" at all. Note that you can read up around here and you will find that its not the utility that issues a building permit, its the city/county where you live.

I would be surprised if Tesla was going forward without a building permit (which, in Tesla's system, the customer does not see unless you ask for the plans), but its not surprising at all that the utility knows nothing about the install being tomorrow.

Typically, the utility raises its head after installation - now you can read up quite a bit on that! Many here think Tesla should have more "secret sauce" than they do in terms of getting utilities to sign off on construction - but really its hard to say if some other installer would do better.

Some utilities require an interconnection agreement before permitting, but in the City of Los Angeles you don't need that if the system is smaller than a certain size, so here, people could be on the day of install and not even realize the utility had been contacted.

Not talking about building permit here talking about acutal approval for install which is required by National Grid.

 

[Rebel]

I have National Grid MA. When I added PW to my existing solar system in 2019, I had to sign a NG interconnection application before any work started. They need to size the transformer that supplies your house to be sure it can handle the backfeed. One of my neighbors added a solar system which caused NG to replace the transformer as there were already 2 homes on the transformer with panels.

Thanks for this info - this is what I want to avoid there are already 6 other houses on the street that have solar panels but they where all done by a local company that came door to door knocking.

 

[Rebel]

While I do not know what is typical (and the CA folks seem to have a different process,) at least around here the utility is definitely involved before construction and requires an "Approval to Install" to proceed, and there are at least potentially consequences for not doing so. Doing a very quick look at national grid, it does appear they similarly conduct a review before install. So, while I probably would still proceed, I would not be quite so sanguine about it as others. Something from Tesla in writing acknowledging they are accepting the risk would be helpful. I would also want to understand when Tesla is expecting payment relative to submission of any paperwork that might normally be due before install.

I suspect the most likely outcome - by far - would be that there is just a longer delay to get PTO as the utility will likely still need to process all the paperwork according to their schedules. With how backed up Tesla is, I would definitely be expecting a very lengthy PTO process.

However, there are some other things to check. There are small areas throughout our service area where solar cannot be installed because the equipment can't support it (either at all, or due to the amount of solar already installed.) Our utility has an online map for this, so you can get an idea if it is likely a risk. The other possible issue is NEM or other program eligibility. In our case, the application includes obtaining NEM eligibility, so installing first means running the risk the program fills. As our area is still a couple years from that, it is not a major concern, but I do not know what the situation is where you are.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSolar/comments/pqcm9j

As you can see it happen to someone installing before approval and if you scroll down to the last comment

"Something similar is happening to me, my PTO has not been approved because my service company (National Grid MA) says "This application is being transitioned to the Expedited process due to the transformer supporting this location being overloaded" after they notified me of this, Tesla sends incorrect or incomplete forms. I am really frustrated and would like to turn on my system."

 

[charlesj]

Why wouldn't the power company just upgrade that transformer?
Others had similar issues with utility transformer not large enough so they upgraded and in some cases split the cost with the solar customer.

 

[Laketime]

I feel forums can sometimes be like looking up an issue on WebMD. Within a few minutes you are convinced you have a tumor when in reality that splinter is just a splinter.

 

[BGbreeder]

@Rebel I do hope that this works out well for you. As others have said, I would attempt to get things in writing, but I would also get on the phone with your utility and try to figure out if they will approve your installation. I wouldn't wait for Tesla to sort it out, however good their relationship might be. Much of the infrastructure in the northeast is old.

There are definitely parts of the US that have infrastructure that is not up to the demands of modern living; cars, AC, induction stoves, etc. Edison bulbs were 15 and 40W in the early days. We all use a great deal more electrical energy than 30, 50, 100 years ago when much of the infrastructure was put in place. Underground wires typically last fifty years, overhead wires 75-100 years, which is a long way to look into the future, when planning. Who was thinking electric cars in every home in 1930, or 1950? Who would have planned on 0-60 in five seconds or less on those vehicles or three hundred mile ranges? Most homes lacked a dryer in 1930, many still did in 1950.

Point being, upgrading a transformer may not fix a neighborhood issue if the local transmission lines/switch gear/substations are also undersized for new demands like solar and car charging. Personally, we almost never draw more than a third of the equivalent of what our solar dumps on the grid for six hours a day for eight or nine months a year.

It would be great if the response to a proposed solar installation were along the lines of "Yes, of course we will do the infrastructure upgrades right away." However, infrastructure deployment can take years to coordinate; even parts like larger transformers and switches are often made to order, which adds time. And that assumes a utility, or public utility commission, with its head screwed on properly, which does seem to be thin on the ground, at least where I have lived.

I do think that any solar contractor that installs first and asks questions later is doing everyone a disservice.

All the best,

BG

 

[holeydonut]

I feel forums can sometimes be like looking up an issue on WebMD. Within a few minutes you are convinced you have a tumor when in reality that splinter is just a splinter.

Unless you're me dealing with PG&E at which point the splinter is actually a giant disconnect being jammed up my rear. According to HoleyDonutMD, PG&E is worse than lupus.

 

[pjax_]

I also got a call from Tesla earlier this day and told me that they can install our Solar Panels as early as tomorrow. It does look like they are scrambling for end of quarter sales. They are only installing Solar Panels. The Powerwall will come at a later date.

The shady thing is that I don't think we got HOA approval on the installation. We have not had our neighbors sign an acknowledgment letter that someone is installing solar at our house. Our Tesla adviser has acknowledged that that was ok.

should I be worried? What are the Solar Installation horror stories that we should be aware about?

 

[dailo]

Install crews are generally pretty good, but I would talk to the crew ahead of time to make sure you know how they plan on running the conduit for the solar and that you are okay with it. You'll also want to make sure they note any roof tiles or things that might get damaged (normal) and make sure they get replaced. Working with Tesla back office is going to be frustrating, so be prepared for that as well. I wonder why they would push installs now though, I imagine they can't really count the install until after inspection and they at least get some payment.

 

[sunwarriors]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSolar/comments/pqcm9j

As you can see it happen to someone installing before approval and if you scroll down to the last comment

"Something similar is happening to me, my PTO has not been approved because my service company (National Grid MA) says "This application is being transitioned to the Expedited process due to the transformer supporting this location being overloaded" after they notified me of this, Tesla sends incorrect or incomplete forms. I am really frustrated and would like to turn on my system."

This sounds totally scary...I've never heard of this and getting worried on my own install.

 

[charlesj]

...meaning the total customer solar generation on the circuit should not exceed 15% percent of the annual peak load/demand on the circuit......

Not totally clear how this is calculated. Do you know? Or, someone else?