A Public Letter to Mr. Musk and Tesla For The Sake Of All Tesla Driver's Safety

[stopcrazypp]

Well one thing that stuck out to me is that Tesla is saying that they did contact the driver and reached him through a translator the morning of the accident. The driver's letter however claims Tesla never contacted him after the accident. One of them is lying.

Previously the statements by the driver (through is "friend") can be taken to be things misinterpreted in translating. However, this point is very clear cut and calls into question the credibility of the statements.

 

[EternalChampion]

Oh snap. The mothership just dropped some logs on Pang.

 

[Az_Rael]

We are also continually studying means of better encouraging drivers to adhere to the terms of use for our driver assistance features

Uh-oh.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla has already confirmed Autosteer was on.

Tesla's letter made it more clear. Autosteer was on until it was disabled by an abrupt steering action. TACC continued until the car impacted.

 

[imherkimer]

Tesla has already confirmed Autosteer was on.

Yes, I was incorrect. "Autosteer was disabled through an abrupt steering action." After road conditions became "increasingly uncertain."

 

[Canuck]

Mr. Pang,
It greatly concerns me that you are from near my home and you not only used AP against its clear instructions but after doing so you attempt to blame others for your own gross negligence. You are a danger to others on the road -- not AP. You could have easily injured or killed someone by using AP on a stretch of road that it is not to be used on. My wife and kids are driving on the same roads near where you live. You put them at risk and everyone else on the roads where you drive. Please, in the future, follow instructions and don't blame others for your own mistakes.

 

[sillydriver]

Uh-oh.

Want to bet AP will be geofenced not to work on roads like that. I just hope it won't be geofenced to work only on interstate highways.

 

[Krebnarb]

If what he say's is true that would be very disconcerting at the least. AP suddenly turns right, strikes several posts and continues attempting to accelerate. Almost sounds like someone hacked the X and remotely drove it. This makes no sense to me Mr. Pang and i'm not calling you a liar. Would Tesla cover this up if true. Damn right! I hope there is a better explanation for this. From what we already know it sounded like the driver had been reckless, which is why he was issued a summons.

Possibly what happened here was that after the car struck the first post, the driver reacted by reflex to twist the steering wheel slightly thereby putting the car off of autopilot and into TACC mode. The posts may have been too thin to be detected by the TACC sensor so the car continued forward essentially on cruise control.

What has happened to me before is that I would be on autopilot, where it restricts you to +5mph of the speed limit on an undivided road. If you deactivate autopilot and your TACC speed is set much higher the car will accelerate on its own. It was a bit unnerving the first time it happened, but once I understood how it worked, I learned to avoid that very situation.

I agree that people need to be fully responsible for the vehicle and that these kinds of incidents can potentially be mitigated by better consumer education on the autopilot feature

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but looks like Tesla has responded, and very aptly so.
Tesla responds to ‘cover-up’ claims in ‘Montana Autopilot Accident’, offers more details on investigation

At this point honestly, I don't see why we need to continue this thread. This is between Tesla and Mr. Pang, and from my point of view, the logs/Tesla say that Mr. Pang ignored autosteer warnings - that right there pretty much knocks the argument out of the park.

 

[BaileyDog12]

Autopilot is a fantastic function and the way of the future; to me, it is hands down the coolest thing about my car. The Autopilot accidents are all so unfortunate, but every Tesla owner understands the inherent risks associated. Telsa owners know what it's like to drive these cars on AP and we know it's far from perfect. I signed up for it knowing these risks associated, but I cannot imagine driving a Tesla without AP.

Yes, Tesla is strategic and savvy business-wise in calling the driving assistance "auto pilot" and allowing the public at large to oftentimes get the impression the car can completely drive itself through grassroots efforts of others like Jessica Alba showing it off in Snapchats or me showing it off to my friends and family. But there's nothing wrong with that and for Tesla to benefit from that is fine, at least to me, because the people who actually pay attention as Tesla owners know better and understand the AP is not a finished product.

Every Tesla sales center and delivery team is a bit different, but I don't think any Telsa owner would claim that they were led to believe by Tesla that AP is a perfect product and allows for fully autonomous driving. The problem is that the media at large has given us the impression at times that AP is a finished product for the mere fact it is even allowed as a beta, and I believe even some Tesla owners can fall victim to that, such as the gentlemen who is the subject of this thread. It appears he expected a perfected product yet Telsa never claimed he was sold a perfected product. Therein lies the rub.

In the end the gentleman driving his car was not observant enough. Anyone who has AP knows that's the truth.

My only real concerns about AP from my personal use is that it sometimes requires very quick reflexes to avoid some potential accidents or tricky motions where AP fails or does not perform as expected. For someone asleep at the wheel, older in age, or who is not quick to react well generally, they need to pay extra attention on AP until the technology gets to the next level, which I'm sure it will very soon.

 

[RogerHScott]

Beeps/warnings occurred earlier. Previous posts suggested that driver did not understand alerts as he is not fluent in English.

To paraphrase Crosby, Stills, and Nash:
"If you beep at me
I will understand
'Cause that is something
Everybody everywhere does in the
Same language"

 

[RogerHScott]

What has happened to me before is that I would be on autopilot, where it restricts you to +5mph of the speed limit on an undivided road. If you deactivate autopilot and your TACC speed is set much higher the car will accelerate on its own. It was a bit unnerving the first time it happened, but once I understood how it worked, I learned to avoid that very situation.

I've experienced this, too, and I think it might be something Tesla needs to tweak somehow. When you're concerned about a steering
issue and turn auto-steer off (usually just be steering yourself) the last thing you need is a sudden burst of acceleration. I just can't see
that the "benefits" (whatever they may be) of resuming the TACC set speed outweigh the hazards of this catching drivers off guard.
I suspect if Tesla checked their logs they'd see that when drivers disengage auto steer at a time when the auto-steer-limited speed is
ten mph or more lower than the TACC set speed the very next thing they do is frantically turn off TACC, usually by hitting the brake.

 

[imherkimer]

I suspect the driver fell asleep
And did not hear the beep

 

[RogerHScott]

I suspect the driver fell asleep

The passenger, too?

 

[imherkimer]

Passenger was already asleep?
After dinner, late at night, with music on, Mr. Pang driving. If I was the passenger, I'd be tempted to rock back that luxurious X seat and take in the stars in the Montana Big Sky through the amazing winshield/roof while drifting off for a bit..... just speculation, of course. Only the driver and his passenger really know how that went down.

 

[MP3Mike]

The passenger, too?

That is what appeared to have happened in Pennsylvania as well...

 

[ecarfan]

Teslas description of Mr.Pang's cars log file data, as quoted (shown below) by @FlatSix911 in a related thread, completely descredits Mr. Pang's description of the accident.

As is our standard procedure with all incidents experienced in our vehicles, we have conducted a thorough investigation of the diagnostic log data transmitted by the vehicle. Given your stated preference to air your concerns in a public forum, we are happy to provide a brief analysis here and welcome a return call from you. From this data, we learned that after you engaged Autosteer, your hands were not detected on the steering wheel for over two minutes. This is contrary to the terms of use when first enabling the feature and the visual alert presented you every time Autosteer is activated. As road conditions became increasingly uncertain, the vehicle again alerted you to put your hands on the wheel. No steering torque was then detected until Autosteer was disabled with an abrupt steering action. Immediately following detection of the first impact, adaptive cruise control was also disabled, the vehicle began to slow, and you applied the brake pedal.

Following the crash, and once the vehicle had come to rest, the passenger door was opened but the driver door remained closed and the key remained in the vehicle. Since the vehicle had been left in Drive with Creep Mode enabled, the motor continued to rotate. The diagnostic data shows that the driver door was later opened from the outside and the vehicle was shifted to park. We understand that at night following a collision the rotating motors may have been disconcerting, even though they were only powered by minimal levels of creep torque. We always seek to learn from customer concerns, and we are looking into this behavior to see if it can be improved. We are also continually studying means of better encouraging drivers to adhere to the terms of use for our driver assistance features.

 

[ohmman]

The only thing I want to add to this conversation is that Tesla's logs of steering wheel torque may not be totally reliable. By that, I mean that I always have my hands on the steering wheel with AP enabled, but very frequently get the nag. I have to be mindful to purposefully "fight" against Autosteer's trajectory every now and then in order to remind the car that I'm still holding the wheel. If I'm on a straight road and I forget to do that, I'll get the nag. It's possible Tesla's logs are more sensitive than the threshold for the nag, in which case they may indeed see that I'm holding the wheel. But if the nag is directly tied to their sensitivity for "hands on", I have to say it's not very sensitive at all. At least not on my X.

 

[sillydriver]

Speaking of hands on the wheel, I'm curious about Tesla's statement "your hands were not detected on the steering wheel for over two minutes. ... As road conditions became increasingly uncertain, the vehicle again alerted you to put your hands on the wheel. No steering torque was then detected until Autosteer was disabled with an abrupt steering action."

Does this mean he was not responding to nags? Or when "the vehicle again alerted", was that the first audible nag, while the first nag implied by the "again" was the silent nag that pops up on the screen a moment before? If so, then I don't think that behavior is objectionable in itself. When I use AP (which I only do under conditions suitable for AP) I leave my hands off but nearby, and I often do not tug the wheel until after the audible alert. I think safe driving with AP is much less a matter of hands on the wheel than of maintaining attention and situational awareness, and especially about making good judgments about where to use it.

But don't get me wrong, based on the street view pictures I would never use AP on that Montana road, particularly not at night. AP was misused, case closed, end of story.

PS - Why not that road? First, it has stretches with no shoulder where the ground falls away. Whether your hands are on or near the wheel, the reaction time needed to make a save before a tire gets off to where you might lose control is too short. Second, the problem with any unfamiliar country road (and I live on a country road) is that you can (particularly in the dark) quickly come upon conditions that AP cannot handle. An overly tight turn is just one example. Others are the crest of a rise in the road (tons of those around here) or a loss of lane and side markings. For example, the narrow road I live on has great markings except where there is a very long rectangular asphalt patch that fixed a potholed section. The problem is that it covers both the center line and southbound side line for over 100 feet. The lines on the instrument display completely disappear when I drive over that section. Someday when I'm feeling lucky I'll experiment and drive it with AP engaged and a death grip on the wheel. But the point is that you cannot rely on an unfamiliar country road that initially looks good enough for AP staying that way for its whole length. End of sermon.

 

[Evee]

Mr. Pang you are at fault. We aren't lab rats. We are human beings behind the wheel. I would be upset if i just crashed my beauty too, but you aren't helping us.