Accident averted, but that leaves more unanswered questions.

[yser]

Was driving my MY on autopilot (v 2022.36.6) on a State HWY at 65 mph in the center lane.
It was green for me, and red for the left turn lane, a car waiting on that lane decided to cut into mine at the last moment.
I noticed and slammed the brakes before Auto-Pilot could respond. At that point, I completely forgot I had AP engaged, and acted instinctively.
Don't remember the breaking distance, I was hoping that the car will be able to come to a complete stop in time.

However, this happened:

After slowing down for a few yards, auto-steer chose to override my decision and make a rapid lane change to move into the adjacent lane that happened to be free, and kept going and crossed the lights incident free. I have never seen it change lanes so fast. It is usually super cautious to the extent it is boring.

Glad it noticed the car (though not as fast as I acted) and came up with a different (and maybe a better) call than mine (switching lanes vs. slamming the brakes).

However, that brings up more questions, can someone answer, so I know what to expect the next time?

1) If autopilot was not engaged, would it have done the same? Is it a core safety feature or a feature of auto-steer?
2) If it knew that slamming brakes would work as well (maybe less optimal, but still could work), will it still override my decision bcos it knows better?
3) I had never checked the lane next to me, so I panicked for a second when it changed lanes. Hindsight, I should trust it a bit more. But I if stood my ground, could I have overridden its decision to change lanes? I felt like there were no cues, it just took over)
4) I noticed it showed some messages on the screen as it did all this, but I was fixated on the road, and there is no way to look back at what messages it flashed. Did I miss any useful alerts/info?
5) Was hoping sentry mode or dashcam would have recorded the incident for me to review later, but there was nothing. Is there a way to auto-record when the car makes corrective maneuvers overriding the driver?
6) It dinged me for hard braking. I have tesla insurance, every ding costs me $$$.

I'm not against FSD, in the waitlist ever since I got the car, just want to understand the machine better.

 

[derotam]

Sorry to get nit-picky here but details can change the responses you get...I think I know the answer but just want to make sure.

After slowing down for a few yards, auto-steer chose to override my decision and make a rapid lane change to move into the adjacent lane

Are you saying that you let your foot off the brake and THEN AP made the lane change and continued through the light, or that it made the lane change while you still had your foot on the brake?

 

[Wnuk]

Odd. As soon as you slammed on the brakes AP would have disengaged and you would have had control of the wheel.

 

[derotam]

Odd. As soon as you slammed on the brakes AP would have disengaged and you would have had control of the wheel.

The car can still do things on its own without being on AP. Being able to prove or re-create said scenarios would be extremely difficult and dangerous. There are lots of stories about people claiming their car took evasive steering action in imminent accident scenarios. The car will nudge you back into the lane if it senses you drift out over a lane line, that shows that it can and will do steering changes while not on AP. You still have control, you just will have to fight the car for it. haha.

 

[EVRider-FL]

The owner’s manual doesn’t document any steering interventions except to keep you in your lane (Lane Assist), but people have reported incidents like the OP’s. If a steering intervention occurs, there might be an alert message in the alert history that explains why.

 

[KArnold]

The car can still do things on its own without being on AP. Being able to prove or re-create said scenarios would be extremely difficult and dangerous. There are lots of stories about people claiming their car took evasive steering action in imminent accident scenarios.

True but I've never heard an instance of this AFTER hitting the brakes, even lightly. When I want control, there sure cannot be a competition as to "who knows best". I do.

As others pointed out, we're missing something in this scenario. As written, it should not be possible - brakes turn off AP, TACC, and FSD every time. It requires driver action to reengage. No?

 

[redmunds]

Could it have been "Obstacle-aware Acceleration", although it seems unlikely since obstacle was in front of car? OP, do you have that enabled?

 

[OxBrew]

There are several scenarios where "Corrective steering applied for your safety" happened to me while not on AP or TACC. One of them actually prevented sideswiping a semi drifting into my lane that I didn't notice (was twisted, holding my dog in the back seat, long story)

The others seemed like nothing happened, maybe because I was already doing the same thing? Usually shifting lane position for oncoming fire engine or something like that.

 

[yser]

Could it have been "Obstacle-aware Acceleration", although it seems unlikely since obstacle was in front of car? OP, do you have that enabled?

I had all available safety and security features turned on, if there was a box for "obstacle aware acceleration" I definitely selected it, but don't remember seeing one named like that.

 

[yser]

The owner’s manual doesn’t document any steering interventions except to keep you in your lane (Lane Assist), but people have reported incidents like the OP’s. If a steering intervention occurs, there might be an alert message in the alert history that explains why.

Where is the alert history? Mobile app or on the car?

 

[derotam]

I had all available safety and security features turned on, if there was a box for "obstacle aware acceleration" I definitely selected it, but don't remember seeing one named like that.

Perhaps you missed my previous post... can you please answer the following question? Are you saying that you let your foot off the brake and THEN AP made the lane change and continued through the light, or that it made the lane change while you still had your foot on the brake?

 

[cbdream99]

I speculate it is the lane assist correction after you slammed on the brake and may have steered the car across the lane, and it tries to correct itself; too bad we cannot see the warnings in the past.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Where is the alert history? Mobile app or on the car?

The alert history is on the touchscreen in the car. If there have been any alerts, there's a triangle with exclamation mark icon on the top part of the screen, tap that to show alerts. You can also view alerts on one of the Controls screens, either Software, Service, or Safety and Security, I don't recall which one.

 

[cbdream99]

The alert history is on the touchscreen in the car. If there have been any alerts, there's a triangle with exclamation mark icon on the top part of the screen, tap that to show alerts. You can also view alerts on one of the Controls screens, either Software, Service, or Safety and Security, I don't recall which one.

Isn't this alert for car hardware/software issues rather than drive time warnings? There is a notification under the service page in the car, or we are talking about different things?

 

[Supcom]

After hitting the brakes, the car would no longer have any ADAS features active, so the car obviously took evasive action on its own. Since the car constantly tracks vehicles in adjacent lanes, it would have known instantly that there was an open lane available to avoid the car ahead. Think of it as an FSD beta free sample!

 

[derotam]

After hitting the brakes, the car would no longer have any ADAS features active, so the car obviously took evasive action on its own. Since the car constantly tracks vehicles in adjacent lanes, it would have known instantly that there was an open lane available to avoid the car ahead. Think of it as an FSD beta free sample!

I don't know that I totally agree with you... What about AEB, I would say that that falls under the definition of ADAS and I can tell you for sure that it will still activate when the brake pedal is being pressed and cannot be overridden. Also, while the car may "instantly" know that there was an open lane, I am unsure as to whether it would bypass its normal safety limits on WHEN to change lanes. What I mean by that is that when you press the turn signal in AP or if AP(NOA/FSD Beta) decides to make a lane change on a completely empty road/highway, it does NOT instantly change lanes. There is a delay and that delay is variable even when there is no other traffic around. Can the car bypass whatever that delay is in some forward collision scenario, sure, would/should it be allowed too, not necessarily if that normal lane change delay is due to any kind of reanalysis of its situational awareness.

 

[derotam]

OP, you have repeatedly ignored my question and other peoples related statements. Others have already pointed out the end goal of what I was trying to get at before any others started to possibly influence your answers. We are missing information that would help us understand the situation better to give any kind of legitimate theory as to what may have occurred.

 

[derotam]

True but I've never heard an instance of this AFTER hitting the brakes, even lightly. When I want control, there sure cannot be a competition as to "who knows best". I do.

As others pointed out, we're missing something in this scenario. As written, it should not be possible - brakes turn off AP, TACC, and FSD every time. It requires driver action to reengage. No?

The competition all depends on the specific safety features and what they are designed and legally allowed to do. Take AEB for example. I can tell you based on two engagements for me the other day(at surprisingly slower than expected activation speeds) that when AEB engages you CANNOT override it. Also, AEB once activated is EXTREMELY cautious and there are larger delays in recovering from that event than there should/need to be in my opinion.

 

[Supcom]

I don't know that I totally agree with you... What about AEB, I would say that that falls under the definition of ADAS and I can tell you for sure that it will still activate when the brake pedal is being pressed and cannot be overridden. Also, while the car may "instantly" know that there was an open lane, I am unsure as to whether it would bypass its normal safety limits on WHEN to change lanes. What I mean by that is that when you press the turn signal in AP or if AP(NOA/FSD Beta) decides to make a lane change on a completely empty road/highway, it does NOT instantly change lanes. There is a delay and that delay is variable even when there is no other traffic around. Can the car bypass whatever that delay is in some forward collision scenario, sure, would/should it be allowed too, not necessarily if that normal lane change delay is due to any kind of reanalysis of its situational awareness.

My use of the term ADAS was, perhaps inaccurate. I meant to state that pressing the brake pedal turns off all of TACC/AP/NOA/FSD beta functions. AEB would, of course, still be active unless the OP had disabled it in the settings.

I expect that under normal circumstances, the car gives advance notice of the lane change to comply with traffic regulations and/or to give the driver time to cancel the maneuver. In an emergency situation, delay is unnecessary.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Isn't this alert for car hardware/software issues rather than drive time warnings? There is a notification under the service page in the car, or we are talking about different things?

I don’t know which alerts are included there because I haven’t looked for drive-time alerts after the fact, but look there and maybe you’ll find something useful.