After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

[Cyberax]

Then let's think, should we try and kill the company so that we are made owners of an orphan brand?
Not considering any shorters out there.

Refunding the FSD purchase cost + reasonable interest won't bankrupt Tesla at this point. Don't care about Tesla stock or shorts anymore.

 

[Amped412]

I just don't have any sympathy for people that are mad about FSD. You should've known you were only promised EAP features. Nothing in the purchase agreement promises FSD in a certain time frame. Heck, some AP features are still in "beta" years later. For the record, I did not purchase FSD because I did not think EAP was worth the price ($10k at the time of my purchase) and I don't pay for future software upgrades up front without knowing what I'm getting.

 

[Cyberax]

I just don't have any sympathy for people that are mad about FSD. You should've known you were only promised EAP features.

I actually PAID for the EAP separately. You had to do that to get the FSD option before 2019. I have no problems with the EAP, it does what it was designed to do.

But the FSD is completely missing.

 

[Barklikeadog]

I don't have anywhere near the time or interest in personally going through a lawsuit, but it's always surprised me that a consumer fraud claim hasn't been brought - at least in Illinois. Here, consumer fraud requires a deception by the defendant, a reliance on that deception by the plaintiff, that deception causing damage, and that deception happening in the course of commerce. There isn't even mention of a contract - as a matter of fact, many of the deceptions are of the "I know the contract says this, but ..." with that statement made by an agent of the defendant being the very deception that causes the plaintiff to enter into the contract. A company can commit fraud by withholding facts that a sophisticated buyer would have relied on to behave differently. On the other hand, a firm can also commit fraud by producing falsehoods that the buyer relies on to commit to a purchase.

It isn't, in my mind anyhow, enough that Tesla never said we'd have FSD in whatever timeframe. Elon made statements, and Tesla posted videos and statements like "coming by the end of the year" that made it sound like FSD was right around the corner. And Elon's tweets and statements matter because he is very much a company agent. If the fact is "and we don't actually have a working version of this anywhere close to the form we're showing in a video," then it was a deception. Again, per the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act, just omitting a material fact that would have changed the behavior of a buyer is fraud. So omitting the fact (assuming it is true - nothing but discovery could prove it) that Tesla has no working FSD prototype capable of advertised features constitutes fraud.

I imagine at least some people wouldn't have bought FSD had they know it wasn't just awaiting regulatory approval, but in fact, wasn't even existent anywhere. Some people would have been fine with it and paid anyhow. Other people relied on information that was clearly incomplete at best and feel defrauded. And again, it isn't that Tesla never said "You will have FSD by xx/xx/xxxx," but instead because Tesla never said "we don't have a working version anywhere and there is no proof we ever will." If that is a material fact for people and Tesla didn't disclose it, then per the Act in Illinois, that is fraud.

Anyone not drinking the kool aid knew this was bs all along. None of their cars currently on the road will be FSD. 5 years later this is still true.

 

[not-Martin]

I don't have anywhere near the time or interest in personally going through a lawsuit, but it's always surprised me that a consumer fraud claim hasn't been brought - at least in Illinois. Here, consumer fraud requires a deception by the defendant, a reliance on that deception by the plaintiff, that deception causing damage, and that deception happening in the course of commerce. There isn't even mention of a contract - as a matter of fact, many of the deceptions are of the "I know the contract says this, but ..." with that statement made by an agent of the defendant being the very deception that causes the plaintiff to enter into the contract. A company can commit fraud by withholding facts that a sophisticated buyer would have relied on to behave differently. On the other hand, a firm can also commit fraud by producing falsehoods that the buyer relies on to commit to a purchase.

It isn't, in my mind anyhow, enough that Tesla never said we'd have FSD in whatever timeframe. Elon made statements, and Tesla posted videos and statements like "coming by the end of the year" that made it sound like FSD was right around the corner. And Elon's tweets and statements matter because he is very much a company agent. If the fact is "and we don't actually have a working version of this anywhere close to the form we're showing in a video," then it was a deception. Again, per the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act, just omitting a material fact that would have changed the behavior of a buyer is fraud. So omitting the fact (assuming it is true - nothing but discovery could prove it) that Tesla has no working FSD prototype capable of advertised features constitutes fraud.

I imagine at least some people wouldn't have bought FSD had they know it wasn't just awaiting regulatory approval, but in fact, wasn't even existent anywhere. Some people would have been fine with it and paid anyhow. Other people relied on information that was clearly incomplete at best and feel defrauded. And again, it isn't that Tesla never said "You will have FSD by xx/xx/xxxx," but instead because Tesla never said "we don't have a working version anywhere and there is no proof we ever will." If that is a material fact for people and Tesla didn't disclose it, then per the Act in Illinois, that is fraud.

What an enlightening exposition

 

[EVNow]

I just don't have any sympathy for people that are mad about FSD.

Basically some people took a gamble that FSD will be available shortly or didn't do the homework. Now they want money for being lazy.

BTW, I do thin, Tesla should refund portions of FSD they haven't delivered (i.e. whatever is still in the reserves portion. This is probably what any kind of lawsuit will result in.

ps : Soon after that city NOA will become available and the "class action" folks will be angry all over again.

 

[not-Martin]

Interesting numbers in this thread that a third will be or are already talking action this year & half by the end of next year.
My guess is the floodgates will open if the well publicised case is successful

 

[Cyberax]

Basically some people took a gamble that FSD will be available shortly or didn't do the homework. Now they want money for being lazy.

BTW, I do thin, Tesla should refund portions of FSD they haven't delivered (i.e. whatever is still in the reserves portion. This is probably what any kind of lawsuit will result in.

ps : Soon after that city NOA will become available and the "class action" folks will be angry all over again.

What exactly WAS delivered? I don't see anything from the FSD being delivered so far.

 

[Daniel in SD]

What exactly WAS delivered? I don't see anything from the FSD being delivered so far.

"Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control"
And "Autosteer on City Streets" is coming later this year!*

*possibly next year too

 

[speedyranger74]

"Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control"
And "Autosteer on City Streets" is coming later this year!*

*possibly next year too

Nope. Two weeks

 

[KJD]

Nope. Two weeks

3 Months maybe, 6 Months definitely

 

[not-Martin]

Now with federal Senators raising the issue of FSD ‘legality’ & the NHTSA probe into autopilot instigated, it’s certain that lawsuits will become prevalent

 

[2101Guy]

Elon Musk says Tesla's Full Self-Driving tech will have Level 5 autonomy by the end of 2021

Tesla's CEO also confirmed that customers won't be able to transfer previous FSD purchases between old and new cars.

www.cnet.com

 

[2101Guy]

I mean, if Level 5 isnt ready by end of 2021, Robotaxi failed to materialize, drivers not able to "go from LA to NYC without human intervention"I can understand the frustrations of some owners...

If you cant believe the (repeated) words of the CEO...

 

[not-Martin]

I mean, if Level 5 isnt ready by end of 2021, Robotaxi failed to materialize, drivers not able to "go from LA to NYC without human intervention"I can understand the frustrations of some owners...

If you cant believe the (repeated) words of the CEO...

Tesla has made repeated false representations on FSD. I’m surprised by the lack of lawsuits

 

[2101Guy]

Tesla has made repeated false representations on FSD. I’m surprised by the lack of lawsuits

my guess? Some persons (the ones who opted out of mandatory arbitration within 90 days of car purchase) may have filed various suits themselves in their own small claims (depending on amount) or their local civil courts and its possible agreements (confidential) were reached...

 

[Driver Dave]

I‘m super happy with my FSD purchase, one of the funnest and coolest things I own.

here’s why:

It is great having it and being part of the moon shot self driving is. And awesome getting each update to see how it gets better. I’ve had it since mobileeye days through switching to Tesla hardware and software, and watching the software involve has been a life experience. It is doing things I never thought they would be able to get work.

It is actually a feature I can’t live without now. I use it around 90% of the time. I know how to drive with it on. I’m always still “driving” yet less cognitive load, and knowing what tricky parts are coming up where I need to turn it off. But it totally makes me a better driver, as I watch people weaving around in lanes, I’m rock solid. And it has more than once get me off an exit that I would have missed. And in traffic? You would have to pry it from my hands.

It is something I’m enjoying watching history being made. I don’t even have the next beta yet but it has been awesome being part of something that will definitely change the world. I used to think oh this is fun but there is going to be a limit to what it can do. And every time they get it doing something I didn’t think it would do. And if you watched AI day, wow, they really are solving problems as they encounter them, coming up with solutions no one could have predicted. So my never will happen has now gone to inevitable it will happen..

So people who complain… I’m like what? Are you watching what is going on? Are you using it? Do you know how to use it? Are you seeing where it is going?

Even in this early development, can’t live without it.

 

[gearchruncher]

So people who complain… I’m like what? Are you watching what is going on? Are you using it? Do you know how to use it?

Even in this early development, can’t live without it.

The problem is that what you listed is all part of autopilot sold until 2019, not FSD. All FSD does beyond EAP is stop at traffic control devices.
So yeah, some people paid $3000+ 5 years ago and all they got was traffic control detection. They can be using AP every single day, and they aren't using FSD at all because it has no features anything like what was sold years ago.

Tesla was genius to tie the post 2019 "FSD" to the pre-2019 "FSD" so we get confused discussions like this.

Are you seeing where it is going?

I think a lot of people have "seen where it's going" since the Paint It Black video released 10 days after you joined TMC 5 years ago I'd think if you have truly had AP since the Mobileye days, you'd know a lot more about this history. But if you've also been through at least 3 cars (AP1, pre-2019 AP2, post 2019 AP2) then you probably also don't care too much about what was sold in the past as a consumer that trades constantly.

 

[mark95476]

Have you given any thought to accelerating the class-action lawsuit before "the button" and FSDbeta 10.1 comes out?

Just pinging this thread since it's gotten a bit stale.

I'm going to. And I opted out of mandatory arbitration, so that's likely going to be a class action lawsuit. I'm waiting for the end of the year.

 

[momo3605]

Have you given any thought to accelerating the class-action lawsuit before "the button" and FSDbeta 10.1 comes out?

Just pinging this thread since it's gotten a bit stale.

If we get FSD Beta access in 7 days from Friday, and then twice a month or monthly updates so we can follow along as FSD improves, I'll be satisfied for the time being, but granted I only got my car with FSD 9 months ago. If I was a 2016/17 buyer or someone who had leased for 3 years and returned their cars already, i'd be fuming! They should be suing already!