This seems quite disingenous, noone would pay so much for those features. They are paying for those features and FULL SELF DRIVING as promised by Musk for years and like the video on tesla.com/autopilot shows. When they are getting it is the question, maybe it's OK to get in 5 years later, maybe not.
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After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?
- Thread starter Nuclear Fusion
- Start date
There are many thousands of people that paid $3k for FSD. You have many thousands of people that are paying much more ($10k) now.
FSD is an option and no one was forced to buy it.
FSD is an option and no one was forced to buy it.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You joined TMC 10 days back - but you "know" how and why people bought FSD years before ?
I was fully aware of "science experiment" nature of FSD when I bought it. I just want to be part of the journey - end of the journey doesn't even interest me that much.
ps : I posted this the month I bought FSD - March, 2019.
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This seems quite ignorant. Ignorant of the basic fact that those exact precise features were packaged and sold as Extended Auto Pilot and people paid $5k for them. And that was when it didn’t include Nav on Autopilot or stopsigns etc.
Some people are too ignorant to read the relevant information and they hear about a tweet or see a video and they don’t bother to inform themselves about the state of the technology and what it includes and what it doesn’t — even when that simply means reading the website details and specific words or even the manual.
There is a crucial difference: Kickstarter campaigns are not typically linked to a rapidly depreciating asset.
I won't mind so much if Tesla promised me one license for the FSD transferable to any Tesla, whenever it comes. In this case it indeed would have been an investment, not just a scam.
I think very few people paid an extra 2-3K on the top of EAP and still have a strong opinion about what was included or what wasn't. To your point, if the software capability promised remains undelivered, shouldn't the license be transferred to new hardware? (aka new car)
I think my next car may not be Tesla depending upon how they handle the FSD situation.. competition from Rivian and Lucid is good to keep Tesla on its toes.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Lucid hopes to deliver about 500 total cars this year.... and those cost 2-3x what the average Tesla vehicle sale does.
Rivian is a bit better off, only around 50% higher price than the typical tesla vehicle sold... and they're "hoping" to produce by end of 2022 roughly as many cars for the entire year as Tesla currently produces in 2 weeks.
"competition"
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Friendly reminder: Where was Tesla a few years back?That's how Tesla started and BIG 3 didn't take it seriously. It's called 'Karma.'
A few years back? 2019 they delivered 367.000 vehicles.
About 10 times more than Rivian plans to deliver by end of 2022.... and about 75,000 times more than Lucid is delivering this year.
I used 2019 because by the end of it Tesla FINALLY had a market cap about 80 billion.
Guess what Rivians market cap is TODAY? About 80 billion.
Lucid has a market cap just under 40 billion....and plans to deliver fewer cars this year than Tesla did in 2012. Like 5 times fewer.
"competition"
That quote attribution got mixed up. That was a very non-bhzmark sentiment.
I think those two companies will be strong competition eventual. There's a middle ground between an immediate threat to Tesla's existence and being waved off as inconsequential. The seeds were planted, grew, and now we're seeing fruit. All good. Faraday Future on the other hand, well...
not sure why you are defending Tesla? Maybe that's your full-time job!
They did a lot of good things but they also outright promised what they couldn't deliver till this date!!! That's why we need competition in the market.. so people like me don't have to come to forums like this to figure out if legal action in near future might be necessary!
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you consider "posting facts" as "defending" anything but accuracy
It's fine to believe that.
I'm just pointing out a company "hoping" to sell 500 cars by the end of the year north of 100k per car is not "competition" for a company selling most of theirs around 50k, and selling near a million of em this year and at least 50% more next year.
Rivian, as I mention is doing a BIT better than Lucid here-- but not by that much- still aspirationally hoping to get 2022 annual production up to what Tesla produces every 2 week in 2021.
Thus the quotes around "competition"
... and all I'm saying is that Tesla had been there until Model 3 happened! That's how big things start in today's world! Lucid/Rivan (not legacy automakers) will provide real competition to Tesla and that is absolutely required to ensure Tesla doesn't play around with consumers with fake FSD dreams in two weeks.
Purely from the design point of view (which happens to be important to me), Tesla cars continue to be way above the competition. After seeing both Rivian and Lucid Air live, I do not think they are able to simplify in a way that Tesla 3, Y and latest S/X refreshes do. Cybertruck is the most compelling design, but will not be available* for years. (* Test "Here is my $$$, when can I get the car delivered").
If I would need to buy a new non-Tesla car right now, I might pick up VW ID.4: It is cheap (especially after subsidies), has a decent charger network and tech is good enough. ID.4 design is disappointing compared to above, but value for the money is hard to beat.
If I would need to buy a new non-Tesla car right now, I might pick up VW ID.4: It is cheap (especially after subsidies), has a decent charger network and tech is good enough. ID.4 design is disappointing compared to above, but value for the money is hard to beat.
KArnold
Active Member
IMHO, "we" don't. Personally based on my experience I have little faith there is such a thing as a lawyer who works in my interests. OR a court that makes very good decisions. Not to mention the time and stress of such an effort.
It's more of a karma thing - that's what Elon needs to fear. It will come back to him, one way or another. He's going to lose big time. History has many examples of similar men.
Just my opinion of course.
rxlawdude
Active Member
2% of attorneys apologize for the other 98%.
An attorney that doesn't work in the client's interests should be reported to the state bar.
dbldwn02
Active Member
Don't forget, they can lower the price too!...after 3 years, they can lower it $1000 and not refund you even though nothing had been delivered. Never seen a kickstarter project bring something in 3 years later for Super Duper Ultra Early Bird Pricing. This isn't kickstarter.
dbldwn02
Active Member
Not exactly. Anyone who purchased a Tesla with AP2.0 was locked with the ability to buy for $4k....even today. Tesla lowered the price of the car, included AP and raised FSD. It basically costs the same now as it did 5 years ago.
Yes exactly. “FSD” was sold as an upgrade to people who had EAP for $3k. That locked in the price for FSD and also got them the computer upgrade and they also now have the streetlights and stop signs and similar things that were not in EAP.
And now all that stuff in EAP (summon, autopark, lane change, NoAP, etc.) along with streetlights, stop signs, etc. are all part of FSD — the option that no one is required to buy, especially those who can’t be bothered to educate themselves as to what it is and what it isn’t, and what it may be.
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