After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

[ElectricIAC]

I am going to agree with "coolboarder", I feel like Tesla is jerking me around with this stupid "safety score" crap. My best score is 96 and that's driving like I am 90 years old. I get a infraction when I park in my garage, part at work (to close to a co-worker), and every little turn that is not perfect. It's a joke. I spent the $10k and I almost never use the current feature because it's so limited. Not being able to transfer the FSD makes the purchase worthless and Tesla should come clean and just refund half the cost, or compensate with a future purchase.

Full cost.

 

[dbldwn02]

I spent the $10k and I almost never use the current feature because it's so limited. Not being able to transfer the FSD makes the purchase worthless and Tesla should come clean and just refund half the cost, or compensate with a future purchase.

I bought FSD 5 years ago and can't even try for a safety score...
...Starting to feel like a blessing in disguise.

 

[jrwaters1]

Perhaps, but none of that is in the current description when you buy FSD.

What does Full self Driving mean to you?

 

[dbldwn02]

What does Full self Driving mean to you?

My FSD stops at green and red lights...that's about it. It was supposed to be Ubering people around back in 2018.

 

[jrwaters1]

I bought FSD 5 years ago and can't even try for a safety score...
...Starting to feel like a blessing in disguise.

I am in the same boat. I haven`t had a meaningful update in a year. I have been told many times I need to pay for MCU2 if I want a chance to Move into the Beta program. I filed an arbitration case and they refused to hear it because they said it was not a warranty issue.

 

[dbldwn02]

I am in the same boat. I haven`t had a meaningful update in a year. I have been told many times I need to pay for MCU2 if I want a chance to Move into the Beta program. I filed an arbitration case and they refused to hear it because they said it was not a warranty issue.

If you're saying Tesla refused, you should have a right to proceed with a lawsuit. If "they" are the American Arbitration Association, I'm not sure what the next step is.

Disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer nor should I be.

 

[powertoold]

What does Full self Driving mean to you?

Car drives drives itself, doing all the maneuvers needed to reach the destination.

However, Tesla provided no performance criteria, so although the car does all the driving, it may not do it well or perfectly.

This is and has been the same for AP. AP has autosteer and TACC, but no performance criteria has been set, so everyone knows that it can and does fail.

 

[dbldwn02]

Car drives drives itself, doing all the maneuvers needed to reach the destination.

However, Tesla provided no performance criteria, so although the car does all the driving, it may not do it or perfectly.

This is and has been the same for AP. AP has autosteer and TACC, but no performance criteria has been set, so everyone knows that it can and does fail.

Disagree. AP and FSD are apples and oranges. Level 2 is assist...100% attention on the road.

Level 4 is you sleeping at the wheel and ferrying people around on the mythical "Tesla Network" It better perform to 99.99999999% like they say it will.

Do you disagree?

 

[Knightshade]

If you're saying Tesla refused, you should have a right to proceed with a lawsuit. If "they" are the American Arbitration Association, I'm not sure what the next step is.

Disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer nor should I be.

If they believe they have a case they can file in small claims court-- -the arbitration clause in the purchase agreement specifically permits you to still file in small claims.

Disagree. AP and FSD are apples and oranges. Level 2 is assist...100% attention on the road.

Level 4 is you sleeping at the wheel and ferrying people around on the mythical "Tesla Network" It better perform to 99.99999999% like they say it will.

Do you disagree?

Kind of?

L4 means no human is required for the car to perform the entire dynamic driving task within some defined operational domain- and that if it has to leave that domain it will fail safely (usually thought of as it can pull over safely and park itself)

That domain could be quite small however, it can be limited by location, by weather, by type of road, by time of day, and a slew of other limits the ODD can include... so that doesn't mean it's necessarily ideal for a general use robotaxi, depending on how limited the ODD is.


Also worth mentioning again Tesla has two vastly different products they've sold as FSD. You (if you bought 5 years ago) bought the first one that has a much broader promise of features than the version Tesla has sold since ~march 2019.

 

[powertoold]

Disagree. AP and FSD are apples and oranges. Level 2 is assist...100% attention on the road.

Level 4 is you sleeping at the wheel and ferrying people around on the mythical "Tesla Network" It better perform to 99.99999999% like they say it will.

Do you disagree?

I don't disagree that Tesla's ambition is level 4/5 as stated by Elon and during Autonomy Day, many times.

However, I don't believe that the fsd package has ever promised level 4, or even level 3 for that matter. If so, they would have said the level in the description to remove all doubt or interpretation.

 

[Knightshade]

I don't disagree that Tesla's ambition is level 4/5 as stated by Elon and during Autonomy Day, many times.

However, I don't believe that the fsd package has ever promised level 4

It did.

The pre March 2019 definition is (at least) L4, since it states the car will drive without requiring ANY action from the person in the drivers seat. See post 644 for the exact wording.

L3 and below all require something of the human in the seat. Only L4 and above does not.


Now the FSD sold SINCE March 2019? THAT never promises anything higher than L2.

 

[dbldwn02]

I don't disagree that Tesla's ambition is level 4/5 as stated by Elon and during Autonomy Day, many times.

However, I don't believe that the fsd package has ever promised level 4, or even level 3 for that matter. If so, they would have said the level in the description to remove all doubt or interpretation.

When I can Tesla Network/Uber on FSD, I'll consider 2016/2017 FSD "Feature Complete" Call it level 2, 3, 4, or 5 or 42. I don't care.

After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

I am going to agree with "coolboarder", I feel like Tesla is jerking me around with this stupid "safety score" crap. My best score is 96 and that's driving like I am 90 years old. I get a infraction when I park in my garage, part at work (to close to a co-worker), and every little turn that is...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[powertoold]

When I can Tesla Network/Uber on FSD, I'll consider 2016/2017 FSD "Feature Complete" Call it level 2, 3, 4, or 5 or 42. I don't care.

There's no formal definition for feature complete. It probably just means all the features are there, but they may not perform well. Feature complete doesn't necessarily mean all the features are production ready.

 

[Daniel in SD]

However, Tesla provided no performance criteria, so although the car does all the driving, it may not do it well or perfectly.

 

[powertoold]

View attachment 755043

That's a safety criteria, has no bearing to level 4/5.

Tesla releases quarterly AP safety statistics, showing it's like 4-5x safer than human driver without AP, for example.

 

[dbldwn02]

There's no formal definition for feature complete. It probably just means all the features are there, but they may not perform well. Feature complete doesn't necessarily mean all the features are production ready.

Ok, again, when it can Uber someone around, even if it kills the person in the back seat, I'll consider it "feature complete"

 

[Daniel in SD]

That's a safety criteria, has no bearing to level 4/5.

Tesla releases quarterly AP safety statistics, showing it's like 4-5x safer than human driver without AP, for example.

Safety isn't the primary performance criteria for driverless vehicles?

 

[johnmodely]

Ok, again, when it can Uber someone around, even if it kills the person in the back seat, I'll consider it "feature complete"

Well then under that definition it is feature complete. There is just a very high chance it will kill you in the current FSD Beta.

 

[dgatwood]

I am in the same boat. I haven`t had a meaningful update in a year. I have been told many times I need to pay for MCU2 if I want a chance to Move into the Beta program. I filed an arbitration case and they refused to hear it because they said it was not a warranty issue.

It's not a warranty issue. It's a textbook case of bait-and-switch fraud, IMO. And they're right. Those sorts of claims should be heard in an actual court, and I'm pretty sure a lawsuit won't end well for them.

For three months, Tesla has been delivering FSD functionality to end users en masse. But for that entire time, Tesla has blocked anyone with MCU1 from getting onto the 2021 build train that is required for getting access to the beta (except, possibly, for anyone who waited to do their hardware upgrade until this year; I have no idea what happened to them).

Tesla is now demanding additional money to get the functionality that we paid for, in spite of promises that we would get any upgrades necessary for FSD functionality, and is refusing to provide any information about when or if the restriction on MCU1 vehicles will be lifted. Meanwhile, they continue to ship new patch releases for the 2020 build train, clearly demonstrating that they are well aware of the sizable number of vehicles stuck on this ancient build train.

It's way past time for Tesla to give us some concrete answers about how they plan to deliver FSD functionality to MCU1 owners. If they don't have an answer by now, it's awfully hard to assume good faith on Tesla's part, and Elon Musk's un-following of a major news outlet for calling them out on it adds further evidence that Tesla is acting in bad faith.

The complete lack of communication on Tesla's part is unacceptable. If there's a planned software-only solution, they need to tell us the plan, give us a delivery date, and then make a commitment to meet that date even if that means delaying other projects slightly. If they're planning to upgrade everyone to MCU2 but can't get enough parts to build enough MCU2 units, that's fine, but they need to tell us that, and they also need to stop charging people money for required upgrades so that we can all get into a queue to get the upgrades when they become available.

Either way, we need answers, and we need them three months ago.

 

[dbldwn02]

Tesla is now demanding additional money to get the functionality that we paid for, in spite of promises that we would get any upgrades necessary for FSD functionality, and is refusing to provide any information about when or if the restriction on MCU1 vehicles will be lifted. Meanwhile, they continue to ship new patch releases for the 2020 build train, clearly demonstrating that they are well aware of the sizable number of vehicles stuck on this ancient build train.

Yup but everyday they delay, is another day of MCU1 cars that get traded in, wrecked, sold, etc...

They'll keep it going until someone holds them accountable. Why would they change course now? As long as TSLA is above $1000 and orders are 18 months out, they don't need brand loyalty.