They are not contradictory. Same thing happened with Tesla years ago.
Owners said there were quality problems but they loved the car overall so much they would buy it again.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
All discussion of Rivian Automotive
- Thread starter RobStark
- Start date
They are not contradictory. Same thing happened with Tesla years ago.
Owners said there were quality problems but they loved the car overall so much they would buy it again.
Here I am speaking with/of personal experience, notated heavily within multiple service requests. One employee canceling it.
Rivian Corp knows who I am. Knows of the formal complaints filed on the issue. Knows of the employee that’s a problem, recently moved that employee to a new store.
It’s tough to comprehend, I get it, there’s a reason you never hear the truth about this company. Owners reporting issues get trolled/blackballed.
I have access to all of the notes on our vin from their internal system.I wish I was making this crap up. By far the worst company and vehicle we’ve ever owned.
Username checks out, sorry
I sawr a YT vid that said that Rivian is gross margin positive on the EDV now, but not the R1S and R1T.
RJ and the company line at the end of Q4 was that they expected to be GMP on those by the end of 2024 and positive on Operating margin by the end of 2025.
RJ and the company line at the end of Q4 was that they expected to be GMP on those by the end of 2024 and positive on Operating margin by the end of 2025.
First, I'm not claiming I'd be any better than Scaringe.
But the R1 series has been shown to be very expensive to manufacture. Strategically, I would have leaned a lot more on the form factor to sell the vehicle, and less on expensive doodads (bluetooth speaker?) and finishes. Operationally, supposedly the R1 door has 100 screws in it? Who let that go to manufacturing? Also, supposedly Rivian paused factory work during Covid while Tesla kept things humming. Especially in hindsight, that was dumb.
Also, I'm not sure confining yourself to an outdoor adventure brand rather than going for soccer moms was the right marketing/positioning strategy. The R1S should be flying even more off the shelves if only suburban wives knew about it.
I do give Scaringe credit for raising $20B, that was nice.
FWIW, I've had positive interactions with Rivian service in San Diego. Which city are you in?
1) Expensive doodads like bluetooth speaker don't add any significant cost. Selling an electric RAV4 for $60k is a poor value proposition vs an electric Land Rover for $80k. Trying to sell commodity vehicles for cheap will lead straight to bankruptcy for a startup.
2) People are willing to pay more for off-road ability and perceived off road ability. That is why Jeep oozes profits, Land Rover is still in business, and Jim Farley has said they want to get out of the "plain vanilla washing machine" SUV market. Market to the off road crowd and rich soccer moms and dads will follow.This was absolutely the right move. Again, trying to sell commodity vehicles for cheap will lead straight to bankruptcy for a startup.
3) Your third point is "don't make mistakes." Don't make dumb engineering decisions. You don't know what you don't know. Sandy Munro teardowns show Tesla made a lot of very expensive to manufacture dumb decisions then improved over time. Rookie manufactures want to make triple sure their cars are safe and won't fall apart. That is more important than cost. I think every rookie manufacture is going to make rookie mistakes.
An addendum to my thoughts above.
On their first try no startup is going to make a Model Y with a much better value proposition. That is literally impossible. If Rivian made a Model Y clone that is a slightly better value proposition that is not good enough for people to switch from the proven Tesla ecosystem to Rivian. It would have to a lot better.
Startups with limited capital and limited production capacity have to go for high end niches. An off-road SUV that is leagues better than a Model X off-road. A midsize off-road lifestyle pickup. Removing blue tooths speaker, adding crappy paint & crappy trim inside isn't going to lower cost by $10k or more. People at this end of the market are willing to pay more for something that looks and feels nice.
Rivian has made execution errors not strategic errors. My biggest beef with RJ is his decision to back track on price increases and grandfather current reservation holders at old prices. That left ~$500M on the table. But if it didn't bankrupt Rivian by now it is irrelevant moving forward.
On their first try no startup is going to make a Model Y with a much better value proposition. That is literally impossible. If Rivian made a Model Y clone that is a slightly better value proposition that is not good enough for people to switch from the proven Tesla ecosystem to Rivian. It would have to a lot better.
Startups with limited capital and limited production capacity have to go for high end niches. An off-road SUV that is leagues better than a Model X off-road. A midsize off-road lifestyle pickup. Removing blue tooths speaker, adding crappy paint & crappy trim inside isn't going to lower cost by $10k or more. People at this end of the market are willing to pay more for something that looks and feels nice.
Rivian has made execution errors not strategic errors. My biggest beef with RJ is his decision to back track on price increases and grandfather current reservation holders at old prices. That left ~$500M on the table. But if it didn't bankrupt Rivian by now it is irrelevant moving forward.
R1T has been dried up for a while. R1S drying up is probably why they started leasing. You can see their inventory has been increasing, but went up a lot in Q4. (Probably because Amazon held off on taking delivery of EDVs.)
What is really killing them is the inventory write-downs and firm purchase commitments:
So, it sounds like it will continue through most of 2024. It seems they bit off more than they could chew, and it is costing them a lot.
But howwww? People love their products and zero fund is written about them. How can they not move 11k trucks with low ev truck competition?
Because they cost too much? Because they don't currently have access to a large, and reliable, charging network? Because they completely suck at towing since charging overheats the battery, making it take forever? (Bad thermal design in the HV pack?)
And unless you are Bloomington Normal or Chicago service access is a pain.
No one wants to listen to the trials and tribulations from real owners until they themselves are in the thicccc of it.
Attachments
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Krugerrand
Meow
There’s definitely some trials and tribulations parking here.
Krugerrand
Meow
They hoped to be in green by end of this year, but that was before projected production cut.
"Rivian lays off 10% of workforce"
techcrunch.com
"Rivian lays off 10% of workforce"
Rivian lays off 10% of workforce as EV pricing pressure mounts | TechCrunch
Rivian is laying off 10% of its salaried workforce in a bid to cut costs in an increasingly tough market for electric vehicles, putting even more pressure
techcrunch.com
Why does Gary expect that? What does he think is going to happen to turn their cash drain around so drastically so quickly? And without production growth for this year?
I think this is very unlikely.
