Any Hardcore Car Enthusiast Out Here? I Have Questions About Going to Model 3

[paradoxical]

C) Don't bother with tracking it, etc. Anyone who does is either a fanboy, or never drove a real sports car. I mean, I took my Cadillac Sedan DeVill around a track as a joke, 20+ years ago, and a Tesla could do that - but probably not handle it as well, given the suspension.

The lap times people are putting down with full interior Model 3s with upgraded suspension are better than BMW M2 and F8x BMW M3/4s. I had a fully track prepped and modified BMW M2 and the best I could touch was 1:40 at Mid Ohio and low 2:2x at NCM. There is a member here who is hitting 1:35 at Mid-O and 2:16 at NCM in his model 3. He is a better driver than me but I am still instructor level, so not a beginner or intermediate. 1:35 at Mid-O is fast enough to hang with 991.1 GT3s.

 

[ColoradoMike]

Lots of questions. Yes a hardcore car enthusiast here and I VOWED I would NEVER get an electric vehicle....Ohhhhhh how I was wrong

My suggestion to you is to keep your "fun car" and use this one as your commuter vehicle. My wife drives 90 miles round trip for work so that is between 400-450 miles per week (not including weekends) in her Porsche Macan. Her previous vehicle was a 2005.5 Jetta TDI and that was probably the best car we ever had. At 230,000 miles the turbo blew and it was time for a replacement. We considered some other "hybrids" but found that the M3LR was a great replacement.

I found it to be a very fun car to drive! For a commuter we figured it was a decent replacement for the Jetta of Justice!

I have a 996 Turbo for track days, wife has a Macan S, and my truck is a 2019 Toyota Tacoma that (cough cough) gets 16 mpg. It is fully armored, lifted, bigger tires, etc....so it is definitely not efficient.

If you have the means, I would suggest keeping you "Fun Car". We used to have 5 vehicles but are now down to 4. Have the best of both worlds if you can swing it! I don't think you can go wrong with the Model 3. We had a similar dilemma between the M3LR and the M3P. Since this car wont see the track (have one for that) the LR made sense to us. If I feel the "need for speed" in the M3LR we have on order I can always add the acceleration boost.

My 996TT is simply FUN! Will I take it on a cross country trip. Absolutely not. I spent thousands of dollars replacing the exhaust to a Kline De-Cat exhaust, tuned it, welded all the coolant lines etc....that cost me upwards of 15K to shave 1.2 seconds for 0 to 60. I can get pretty damn close with the M3LR for only 2k.

There wont be a replacement for the exhaust note on the Model 3 but there is no getting around for pure acceleration that the M3 has stock.

 

[MJB-CO]

I came from an Audi A4 with a sport suspension to a 2018 LR Dual Motor 3.
Rather than spending the extra cash for a performance version I installed upgrades from Unplugged Performance Tesla Model 3 Upgrades By Unplugged Performance.
Tesla Model 3 Adjustable Sway Bars to flatten the ride.
Tesla Model 3 Aero Efficiency Package A increases efficiency at highway speeds, somewhat offsetting higher energy use, and has a much nicer rear spoiler than the Tesla Performance version.
I have on order the Tesla Model 3 Ascension Rear Bumper and Diffuser System - greater downforce and breaks up the negative pressure at rear of car.
I also just replaced the original Michelin Primacy MXM44 with Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus Elect tires. The Pirelli's are designed for EVs and have much better handling than the Michelins.

 

[ColoradoMike]

I came from an Audi A4 with a sport suspension to a 2018 LR Dual Motor 3.
Rather than spending the extra cash for a performance version I installed upgrades from Unplugged Performance Tesla Model 3 Upgrades By Unplugged Performance.
Tesla Model 3 Adjustable Sway Bars to flatten the ride.
Tesla Model 3 Aero Efficiency Package A increases efficiency at highway speeds, somewhat offsetting higher energy use, and has a much nicer rear spoiler than the Tesla Performance version.
I have on order the Tesla Model 3 Ascension Rear Bumper and Diffuser System - greater downforce and breaks up the negative pressure at rear of car.
I also just replaced the original Michelin Primacy MXM44 with Pirelli P Zero All Season Plus Elect tires. The Pirelli's are designed for EVs and have much better handling than the Michelins.

I will have to check into Unplugged performance! We had an Audi A5 for a bit but it was destroyed in the epic hail storm that was back in 2018 IRRC.

Thanks for posting this and we are probably neighbors! Still waiting for our Model 3 LR to come in. Declined a delivery back in May due to major paint defects and glass issues. It was nice that Tesla COS let us take a look but now I know why it was declined by the previous person.

What year is your M3? Did you think the Aero Efficiency package helped?

 

[MJB-CO]

I will have to check into Unplugged performance! We had an Audi A5 for a bit but it was destroyed in the epic hail storm that was back in 2018 IRRC.

Thanks for posting this and we are probably neighbors! Still waiting for our Model 3 LR to come in. Declined a delivery back in May due to major paint defects and glass issues. It was nice that Tesla COS let us take a look but now I know why it was declined by the previous person.

What year is your M3? Did you think the Aero Efficiency package helped?

My M3 is a 2018, one of the first dual motor.
Yes, the Aero Efficiency package does help, I'm gaining about 10% at highway speeds.
The Pirelli tires are also more efficient, lower rolling resistance.
When I get the Diffuser system I expect to gain another 5% on the highway.
By the way we have an EV club here in the Springs - Colorado Springs EV Club

 

[tm1v2]

I also want to throw one thing out there, for @EM CARS or anyone else reading who hasn't purchased their Model 3 yet...

For all my downtalking of the stock suspension, I absolutely 100% enjoyed daily driving this car on the stock suspension. I even enjoyed tearing up twisty back roads in it...I just couldn't drive it at the pace I can now after the upgrades. Personally I would not have bought it as a DD family car, if I felt like I *needed* major aftermarket suspension upgrades (dampers+springs) just to enjoy the car.

That's because as a (2nd, smaller) shared family car it needs to be reliable and DD friendly, that is more critical than corner carving. There's always risks with aftermarket stuff in that regard, when you can't just take it to the service center / dealer and say "make it right" (and "give me a loaner in the meantime") no matter what the issue is. If for whatever reason I have major issues with any aftermarket suspension part that I can't promptly resolve, I will just replaced it with the stock part and move on, still enjoying the car. This car absolutely must not become a project car for me.

[ Just to be clear, I've had no such problems so far, and this isn't about any specific aftermarket part or brand. This is about the basic implications and risk of modding a car when you still value its reliability, ease of getting it repaired, and manufacturer's warranty. If I was fixing up an old car, or building a track rat, or situations like that...then obviously I wouldn't care at all whether I could tolerate the stock suspension, I wouldn't even keep the original stock parts around. ]

Now the fact that I can enjoy this car on its crappy stock suspension, does not of course mean someone else reading this will. If you're a driving enthusiast I strongly suggest a good thorough test drive, covering twisty back roads, gnarly surfaces, and fast highway ramps, to explore the gamut of the car's handling (as best can be done on the street). *That's* why I'm so vocal on these forums about the crappy stock suspension...it's not that I hate the car stock, not at all. It's that sometimes people make assumptions, or simply can't arrange for a properly thorough test drive, and I would hate for a driving enthusiast to buy this car and then be surprised and disappointed about how un-sporting the stock suspension is. Go in with knowledge and you will have a great, fun time with this car!

(Or if you don't care at all about the stock suspension, then don't worry about taking such a thorough test drive, you can take our word here that the car handles fantastic once properly upgraded! )

 

[bedoig]

Yes, the Aero Efficiency package does help, I'm gaining about 10% at highway speeds.

I want to believe, but I can't see any possibility that a front lip and a rear deck spoiler is changing aero efficiency by 10% at highway speeds.

Edit - great forum thread, by the way. Although now I'm (again) considering coilovers, ingenext ghost module, and buying another S2000, lol. Time to log off before I spend a bunch of money

 

[ColoradoMike]

I also want to throw one thing out there, for @EM CARS or anyone else reading who hasn't purchased their Model 3 yet...

For all my downtalking of the stock suspension, I absolutely 100% enjoyed daily driving this car on the stock suspension. I even enjoyed tearing up twisty back roads in it...I just couldn't drive it at the pace I can now after the upgrades. Personally I would not have bought it as a DD family car, if I felt like I *needed* major aftermarket suspension upgrades (dampers+springs) just to enjoy the car.

That's because as a (2nd, smaller) shared family car it needs to be reliable and DD friendly, that is more critical than corner carving. There's always risks with aftermarket stuff in that regard, when you can't just take it to the service center / dealer and say "make it right" (and "give me a loaner in the meantime") no matter what the issue is. If for whatever reason I have major issues with any aftermarket suspension part that I can't promptly resolve, I will just replaced it with the stock part and move on, still enjoying the car. This car absolutely must not become a project car for me.

[ Just to be clear, I've had no such problems so far, and this isn't about any specific aftermarket part or brand. This is about the basic implications and risk of modding a car when you still value its reliability, ease of getting it repaired, and manufacturer's warranty. If I was fixing up an old car, or building a track rat, or situations like that...then obviously I wouldn't care at all whether I could tolerate the stock suspension, I wouldn't even keep the original stock parts around. ]

Now the fact that I can enjoy this car on its crappy stock suspension, does not of course mean someone else reading this will. If you're a driving enthusiast I strongly suggest a good thorough test drive, covering twisty back roads, gnarly surfaces, and fast highway ramps, to explore the gamut of the car's handling (as best can be done on the street). *That's* why I'm so vocal on these forums about the crappy stock suspension...it's not that I hate the car stock, not at all. It's that sometimes people make assumptions, or simply can't arrange for a properly thorough test drive, and I would hate for a driving enthusiast to buy this car and then be surprised and disappointed about how un-sporting the stock suspension is. Go in with knowledge and you will have a great, fun time with this car!

(Or if you don't care at all about the stock suspension, then don't worry about taking such a thorough test drive, you can take our word here that the car handles fantastic once properly upgraded! )

Thank you for being SOOO HONEST!

On forums we all have differing opinions.

From a guy that tracks my 996TT regularly, the Model 3 doesn't even come close! Howerver, it is an AWESMOME daily driver with the added benefit of being super quick!

Thank you for posting this!

 

[MJB-CO]

I want to believe, but I can't see any possibility that a front lip and a rear deck spoiler is changing aero efficiency by 10% at highway speeds.

Edit - great forum thread, by the way. Although now I'm (again) considering coilovers, ingenext ghost module, and buying another S2000, lol. Time to log off before I spend a bunch of money

Unplugged Performance did an aerodynamic study of the 3 and designed those spoilers for greater efficiency. They have the data on their website. UPP actually claims up to 12% for the two combined.
Note that just adding the aero wheel covers on the stock 18" wheels adds 10% efficiency.
So, there's a lot of ways to get better range on a 3.

 

[095179005]

Non-enthusiast chiming in.
I read a thread the other day on r/cars about a M3P owner selling it and going back to gas and wanted to see what you guys thought.

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/rshvy0

TL;DR
EV silence, one-pedal driving made driving experience less engaging, "souless", their '99 Miata was on another level of enjoyment

 

[tm1v2]

Non-enthusiast chiming in.
I read a thread the other day on r/cars about a M3P owner selling it and going back to gas and wanted to see what you guys thought.

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/rshvy0

TL;DR
EV silence, one-pedal driving made driving experience less engaging, "souless", their '99 Miata was on another level of enjoyment

@095179005 Wow. That...wow.

For anyone who hasn't read that diatribe yet...don't. Protect your brain cells. Much of it isn't even about the Model 3 or any personal experience of the person who wrote it.

Also, while I'm no Miata fan, it seems rather obvious to me that if you want a tiny convertible sports car then a sedan like the Model 3 probably won't satisfy.

 

[wws]

I think with driving fast, I want to fly under the radar. Your comment made me laugh about people don't mess with Tesla because they know they'll get wrecked. I had an interesting conversation I told someone a few week ago when I said my car is fast and they asked, you must drive a Tesla! Not Corvette or Camaro etc she went right to Tesla lol...

I recently did a 6000+ mile coast to coast road trip in my Model 3. One afternoon, while driving through rural Oklahoma on a 4 lane section of Historic Route 66, two big dually diesel pickup trucks passed me in the left lane. A little further on, one of them pulled in the right lane in front of a Prius, and "coal rolled" him (and not me.) It is the first time I've seen a deliberate "coal rolling". So Teslas apparently get Respect - even in rural Oklahoma.

 

[afadeev]

Non-enthusiast chiming in.
I read a thread the other day on r/cars about a M3P owner selling it and going back to gas and wanted to see what you guys thought.

It is TL, but I did read it.

95% of the observations are valid. From battery degradation, to ambient temps effecting range, to Tesla QC and interior challenges, to Tesla community preachiness.
5% are personal conclusions that don't agree with mine. I'm nowhere close to giving up to EVs, although I find plenty of faults with Model 3. I think I will be replacing my TM3P with another EV soon, though not yet sure with what.

After ~4 years of owning and driving the TM3P, I have to say that I am driving it less and less. I has become an almost exclusively wife's commuter car. She likes the EV aspect of it, but doesn't trust the AP or most of the other Tesla UI gimmicks. Meanwhile, I've gravitated back to enjoying the driving experience of the real ///M3.

YMMV,
a

 

[Let's Drive]

I'm still wondering what ownership is like after the first month or so then instant acceleration gets old.

I've gotten used to it, but a responsive throttle and broad powerband never gets "old", in the same way N/A engines inherent responsiveness doesn't get "old". It's an attribute you come to expect from EVs, it makes them feel effortless when moving, and it makes most gas cars feel sluggish, IMO (unless you're constantly at the torque peak and correct gear, which is impractical). The best part is that you don't sacrifice a large amount of practicality for that performance, which is very difficult to do in the ICE world.

That said, you get used to any car you own (which is why so many people modify theirs, before eventually selling, anyway), and so it depends what you value in ownership. My other car is a built IS F and I like the sounds that come out of it, but I'm also used to them after 12 years of ownership. I appreciate the silent assassin act of the Model 3, as much as the bravado bark, depending on the day. I don't think a "true car enthusiasts" is defined by liking an engine or not, but rather their ability to appreciate cars for what they are, and not what they aren't.

When I drive/race the Model 3, I'm focused on much of the same things, like my course and heading. I appreciate little things like the low hood line, extra space the glass roof allows for my helmet, and my ability to hear my surroundings to really engage with my environment, and not just the car. The amount of grip the car manages to find in the wet, is amazing, and just something to marvel at, in terms of technology. It's an easy car to drive fast and I can have a ton of fun with it, like most any other vehicle. The beauty is that it actually offers a departure from conventional gas cars, which have dominated the "enthusiast" scene for decades. I've owned rotary cars, multiple cylinders, forced induction, and now electric. I think variety offers an alternative perspective on what it means to have fun in a car, and this is just the beginning.

So yeah, give it an honest shake and try to embrace it for what it offers. It's a ground-up reimagination of what the driving experience is.

 

[Mrbattery123]

Hardcore motorcycle & car enthusiast here. I went from a 2018 C43 AMG with FBO to Model 3 LR. I switched to the Tesla since I was getting more and more into motorcycles and figured, I'd behave in my car to avoid tickets and ride like a hooligan on the bike. So I bought the Tesla because it was similar to my AMG. 4 doors, sleek, quick, and not too big. I've had it for almost 2 years now and still love it. I've taken a break from motorocyles and I do occasionally contemplate selling it and getting a M2, RCF, or alfa Romeo 4c and much much more. What holds me back the most is that this car has held value and gained a bit after owning it for 2 years and having 33k+ miles on it. I haven't done any maintenance at all, and already saved thousands in gas. It is quick off the line and would smoke a stock m2, rcf or alfa 4c. I don't even have the acceleration boost and that lowers the 0-60 by .5 and can be downloaded via the app. The car handles Well in the canyons due to the battery being in the middle hence it lowers the center of gravity. Pair it With coil overs and nice tires and its a decent canyon carver. The car does feel soul-less at times, but I like the stealth and tech it comes with. I'm still unsure if I want to keep it but It's not easy to find something to replace it with.

 

[Chattanooga3]

Sold my Type R once the value maxed out. Was a great entry level out of the box auto x car, but the Model 3 is the better car overall to daily drive.

You could make a case for having both.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

The beauty is that it actually offers a departure from conventional gas cars, which have dominated the "enthusiast" scene for decades. I've owned rotary cars, multiple cylinders, forced induction, and now electric. I think variety offers an alternative perspective on what it means to have fun in a car, and this is just the beginning.

So yeah, give it an honest shake and try to embrace it for what it offers. It's a ground-up reimagination of what the driving experience is.

Just wanted to quote this part specifically, the whole post is right on, but I think this section just so perfectly aligns with my thinking (after a year of ownership) and sounds like my ownership history as well.

 

[Lindenwood]

1) The M3P suspension is actually quite comfortable, which I think was the goal. It would be far more expensive for them to provide an optional raceworthy suspension from the factory than it is for us to just spend $5k on off-the-shelf upgrades (coilovers, camber adjustment, and maybe a couple of bushing upgrades).

2) That said, there is no difference in ground clearance or overhangs between the LR and P anymore.

3) Please stop saying “An LR with Boost is basically an M3P.” Somebody like the OP would undoubtedly value track mode—at the very least, the ability to keep all the Nannie’s from shutting him down every time he wants to push a little hard (or, heaven forbid, deliberately break the tires loose). Similarly, while the brake upgrade doesn’t matter to someone who just wants to occasionally floor it through on-ramps to make passengers giggle (for which the Boosted LR is well suited), any sort of the “Canyon Carving” and such that the OP enjoys would absolutely benefit from the P brakes. And this is not to mention the factory P tires are SIGNIFICANTLY better than the factory LR tires for actual performance driving.

Even when the price difference was 10k, you would be looking at $5k in the Boost, tires, and a party box (to tweak traction control as desired), and you’d still have lesser brakes. Now that the price gap is much narrower, there is even less incentive for actual enthusiasts to accept the downgrade to an LR.

 

[Heckraiser]

Long time car nerd, now settled into boring old man status. I used to race a purpose-built EG civic (and owned a number of more modestly built hondas), a supra turbo and I've driven all sorts of performance vehicles over the years.

My $.02, the Tesla is very competent, but still kinda boring. The power delivery is a kick in the nuts and depending on your mood, makes up for the lack of shifting and that degree of interaction/control you can experience with a ICE and manual transmission. But you get used to it, and that lack of interaction is felt more over time. The traction control is awful--way too intrusive. For performance driving, you want the M3P for this reason alone.

I bought my 3 as a commuting appliance (hence the SR+). I have other options for "fun cars." If you want to make the tesla your tire-shredding weekend fun-mobile, you'll want the P.

 

[EmOne]

I will have to check into Unplugged performance! We had an Audi A5 for a bit but it was destroyed in the epic hail storm that was back in 2018 IRRC.

Thanks for posting this and we are probably neighbors! Still waiting for our Model 3 LR to come in. Declined a delivery back in May due to major paint defects and glass issues. It was nice that Tesla COS let us take a look but now I know why it was declined by the previous person.

What year is your M3? Did you think the Aero Efficiency package helped?

Competition is good, but Mountain Pass Performance has better options than Unplugged for chassis/brake upgrades.