AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Sure. I was just trying to understand why the cost though upgrade would go up...I thought maybe they are starting to anticipate that people who purchase FSD will need more than just HW3...
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Anyone currently considering buying FSD post-delivery (Aug 16 price hike)?
- Thread starter Kognos
- Start date
Sure. I was just trying to understand why the cost though upgrade would go up...I thought maybe they are starting to anticipate that people who purchase FSD will need more than just HW3...
vjason
Member
Elon believes that the closer FSD gets to being feature complete the more it is worth due to robotaxis being that much closer to a reality.
I personally do not believe that we are close enough for it to matter for cars that are on the road today, at least not without a sensor suite retrofit of some sort and a level of AI that no one has demonstrated to date. I personally know of 2-3 oddities along the highway and other roads near my home or along my brief (15 mile) commute which EAP almost always fails on. Add to that inconsistencies on how road construction is handled (inconsistent markings from one road/city/state to the next) and I'm just not convinced we are that close as of yet.
That said, I *could* see FSD nail highways within the next few years as there are far less variables. All other roads are another matter entirely. As is the case with many things, nailing that last mile (plus a few in between) is very difficult.
Also, as someone who has driven ~4000 Uber/Lyft rides for ~8000 passengers, robotaxis are going to be a cleanliness and odor nightmare (not to mention interior and suspension wear and tear). If you don't believe me sign up to drive for either and do it for a couple of weekend evenings or even rush hours. I urge anyone considering signing their car up to be a robotaxi to drive rideshare for a little while first to understand what can happen even when you are in the car with the passengers, and then imagine what might happen if you weren't there.
I personally do not believe that we are close enough for it to matter for cars that are on the road today, at least not without a sensor suite retrofit of some sort and a level of AI that no one has demonstrated to date. I personally know of 2-3 oddities along the highway and other roads near my home or along my brief (15 mile) commute which EAP almost always fails on. Add to that inconsistencies on how road construction is handled (inconsistent markings from one road/city/state to the next) and I'm just not convinced we are that close as of yet.
That said, I *could* see FSD nail highways within the next few years as there are far less variables. All other roads are another matter entirely. As is the case with many things, nailing that last mile (plus a few in between) is very difficult.
Also, as someone who has driven ~4000 Uber/Lyft rides for ~8000 passengers, robotaxis are going to be a cleanliness and odor nightmare (not to mention interior and suspension wear and tear). If you don't believe me sign up to drive for either and do it for a couple of weekend evenings or even rush hours. I urge anyone considering signing their car up to be a robotaxi to drive rideshare for a little while first to understand what can happen even when you are in the car with the passengers, and then imagine what might happen if you weren't there.
Burrito
Member
yea vjason, agree on the robotaxi point. unless having a model 3 moonlighting as a taxi literally pays for itself at the same rate i pay for the car then its a hard pass for me. i keep my car immaculate and dont want a bunch of randos treating it like trash. now if my car will make enough to pay itself then i would let the car "work" fulltime and buy another car.
on the FSD topic, when the flash sale was offered back in march, did it only apply to those with EAP like the current price cut or could anyone get fsd for the 2k back then. i have a may build awd lr with normal (standard) autopilot steer and speed.
on the FSD topic, when the flash sale was offered back in march, did it only apply to those with EAP like the current price cut or could anyone get fsd for the 2k back then. i have a may build awd lr with normal (standard) autopilot steer and speed.
And that is the most important part about this fsd/robotaxi business.
You would want to put one your car for hire and buy another one for private use.
It makes sense of course but what does it do for the environment? If it works really well, it will put a bunch more cars on the road. Ev or not, adding cars is not great for the environment. So much for the "mission".
To stick back to the topic, I don't buy Beta !
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes, I am aware of the stated reason it is supposed to get more expensive, but I was wondering about the actual reason they plan to raise the price, even before delivering anything of consequence (no, Enhanced Summon does not count).
Waiting makes sense if it is going to get cheaper over time (what one would expect, even with silly robots is), but buying now would obviously make sense if it is going to get more expensive - even if it is not for the stated reasons. So if I can come up with a plausible reason for it getting more expensive, then it might make me more inclined to buy now.
If you had EAP, adding FSD was $2k during the sale.
If you had nothing, adding FSD (which encompasses AP and EAP) was $5k total. Ridiculous deal. Made a lot of people mad.
I went and added the FSD when i purchased my car personaly my investment was in the future and the hardware included upgrade remember they are currently working on Ver 3.5 . Listen if autopilot 3 comes out and allowes me to record most of my routs to and from work or any location i frequently travel to that would be all i need at the begining where i can say take me home. I think after a few trips learned and recorded that would be amazing and worth the 5000 i spent in my oppinion.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
pdx_m3s
Active Member
That's not really how Tesla's autonomous driving system works. It's a general purpose system, not route/location dependent. You can't record your route and have the car repeat it in the way you describe.
I won't be buying FSD ever unless it comes down significantly in price (<$1k). I'm not saying that's what it's worth, but that's what it's worth to me. Add in the fact I just don't expect that the features are going to be delivered within 5 years (not in a way I'd consider "Full Self Driving"), I don't even know if we'll still have the car if/when the features are complete! I like driving. This is a good car to drive. AP doesn't work well for me currently, but I'm otherwise happy with the current state of the car.
Another consideration is a lot of Tesla owners (more so than other vehicles) don't keep cars around for very long. Paying over and over for FSD when it's not yet "full" is nice for Tesla, but not so nice for the buyer. This is especially important when it's still very odd for the car industry to attach value to a vehicle via software and not hardware. Go to your insurance company "but my car is worth $8k more because it has a software flag set" -- they won't even know what you're talking about, nor do they have a configuration of the vehicle that matches that in their system. And how could they, when you can add the feature whenever you please?
I've only watched one Tesla event, and they were very clear that they _could_ make AP a lot better by pre-mapping routes, but they really want a generalized AP system. I hope you didn't buy the feature expecting that it would learn your drives. Out of curiosity, if so, what led you to thinking this may be the case? Is this something that the Tesla community could be more clear on?
Another consideration is a lot of Tesla owners (more so than other vehicles) don't keep cars around for very long. Paying over and over for FSD when it's not yet "full" is nice for Tesla, but not so nice for the buyer. This is especially important when it's still very odd for the car industry to attach value to a vehicle via software and not hardware. Go to your insurance company "but my car is worth $8k more because it has a software flag set" -- they won't even know what you're talking about, nor do they have a configuration of the vehicle that matches that in their system. And how could they, when you can add the feature whenever you please?
I've only watched one Tesla event, and they were very clear that they _could_ make AP a lot better by pre-mapping routes, but they really want a generalized AP system. I hope you didn't buy the feature expecting that it would learn your drives. Out of curiosity, if so, what led you to thinking this may be the case? Is this something that the Tesla community could be more clear on?
pdx_m3s
Active Member
I've thought about this very thing when it comes to trading in a Tesla to Tesla. Why would they pay more and attach ANY value to FSD when re-purchasing a car, if they can just flip the software switch to make a non-FSD car have FSD? In short, you're not going to get any trade-in bump from Tesla for having FSD.
You have a very good point as far as return on investment, i myself wished i could have opp to invest in the long range and are considering the model Y. As far as insurance if you total the car will you get the Fsd invested? My thought was invest in the future hardware if a MCU runs in the 1000 then it makes sense. Its a crap shoot! Over the implemation of premapping route.Im aware that in its current state it will not not do this.i was talking about the future software release once the recognition of stop signs and redlights it would may make sense. Right now no it has so many issues to say a few on comming merging traffic and those sudden brakes dont help the cause.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
In speaking of investments, an idea I've read on this forum before is that take what you can pay for FSD, and invest it in TSLA stock instead.
If you buy FSD right now, you cannot get that money back, even if it takes 10 years before the "full" part is achieved. If you buy stock, there are two likely outcomes:
1. Tesla is still stringing people along about FSD, you sell the stock when you want the money back and move on with your life.
2. Tesla achieves FSD, launches a robo-taxi fleet, their stock price skyrockets and you sell your shares to afford the features that now cost $10-$20k.
The above is not stock trading advice, but an interesting idea for people who are considering taking the risk in purchasing FSD. I bought a few shares when I read those posts and now I don't worry about price fluctuations in FSD so much anymore (that worry has been replaced with fluctuations in the stock price...).
If you're still considering a Model Y in the future, I don't know the US pricing but FSD vs. Long Range is probably pretty close. I'd recommend Long Range over FSD as it's a physical, real difference that actually increase the value of the car in many ways. Financially via resale, obviously. Practicality, since it's longer range and also charges faster (depending on your personally common charging options). Reliability, since a Long Range pack goes through less "cycles" than a Standard Range pack for a given distance. It also experiences less stress, since the same electrical current for driving is pulled from more cells.
Anyhow, whether or not insurance considers FSD as part of the car varies. If you bought it with the car, there's a higher chance (since it may have been registered at a higher value). If you added it later, I don't know if there's much precedent for having it considered as part of the value, though that difference between insurance companies as well probably.
Recognising stop signs and traffic lights is still part of "generalised autonomy". It's likely newly reacting to the same signs every time it sees it, just like it reacts to a pedestrian walking in fron of you that it's never seen before. In the future that means it would also be able to pick up traffic changes like a 2-way stop becoming a 4-way or vice versa. This is why generalised autonomy is their goal -- everything changes constantly, both in terms of how the roads work and things on the road.
Those are different "investments", and I think Tesla owners do use the same term for the two different concepts. I think those "investing" in FSD are purposely giving Tesla extra money to further their operations and technology by overpaying. Buying stock however is an investment for yourself and has no direct impact on the company in any way at all. That said, some do consider the FSD investment as an early stake in this robotaxi idea.
Uncle Don
Member
I am not planning to buy FSD anytime soon. I don't even have AP. When I bought my car, Oct. 2018, they offered EAP for $5K at purchase, $7K after. I passed on that and I'm glad I did. I missed the sale in March but I'm not upset about that. I may buy AP if it goes on sale, but not FSD until I can sit on the back seat, which is many years away. I've been driving for over 45 years with no assistance. no reason to have it now.
That's a heck no for me on $6k for FSD. IMO, monitoring what the car is doing in the city/off highway (whenever that will be offered) would be way more stressful than driving it myself. I'll put that 6k towards a Model Y.
Robo taxis, appreciating asset and steering wheel less cars are way too deep in Elon's reality distortion field to even debate.
Robo taxis, appreciating asset and steering wheel less cars are way too deep in Elon's reality distortion field to even debate.
Yep, this is the single feature from FSD I wish was in the base AP
dont fall for elon's price hikes! my car came with AP and its nice for highway driving and traffic - for that i love it.
However, I wouldnt pay for it and i sure as heck wouldnt purchase the FSD - it just doesnt seem worth it.
Elon getting rid of the head of the autopilot program should be some indication that its nowhere near the level they had hoped for it to be
However, I wouldnt pay for it and i sure as heck wouldnt purchase the FSD - it just doesnt seem worth it.
Elon getting rid of the head of the autopilot program should be some indication that its nowhere near the level they had hoped for it to be
pdx_m3s
Active Member
Reason number 864 why I’m glad I didn’t pay for FSD. From this morning:
Similar threads
