Anyone else tired of the "anti" selling of M3?

[Matias]

As excited as I am about the success/enthusiasm surrounding the Model 3 so far, I have had concerns for a while about the huge demand and backlog. Someone at Tesla has surely realized that instead of launching a car jam packed with as many features as possible, they can set the bar low, still sell all the cars they can make, and slowly upgrade and ramp up the bells and whistles over time. The only problem with this approach is that it leaves them vulnerable to competition from others. When Apple launched the iPhone, everyone openly discussed how this was going to cannibalize iPod sales. Fast forward 10 years, and the iPod is basically non-existent, but Apple's philosophy was that they'd rather cannibalize their own sales than have a competitor do it. I'm not saying the Model 3 is going to lead to the death of the Model S (as others have pointed out, it's a different car, for a different demographic). I just hope that Musk's attitude of packing it full of features continues to dominate the discussion at Tesla (accepting that some features just aren't 'ready' yet, and allowing an "on time" launch and gradual improvement). I hope that they aren't using the huge demand as an excuse to hold back on features for the car, then roll out new features as supply improves and demand starts to wane. Only time will tell, but I'm hoping once they start actually selling the Model 3, they'll do what every other car company does, and keep each car in its own segment. BMW 3 and 7 series don't compete with each other, and presumably it's possible to buy a 3 series that outperforms the 7 series depending on each car's configuration.

IBM was cautious about not letting PC to cannibalise higher models...
Kodak first developed digital camera, but was cautious about not letting it to cannibalise film sales...

Lesson from the story; if you don't cannibalise your procucts, someone else will.

 

[sandpiper]

IBM was cautious about not letting PC to cannibalise higher models...
Kodak first developed digital camera, but was cautious about not letting it to cannibalise film sales...

Lesson from the story; if you don't cannibalise your procucts, someone else will.

Tesla is walking a tightrope. The S/X is keeping the company afloat. I'm sure that they would LOVE to talk-up the Model 3, but that would be corporate suicide.

Certainly Tesla has to upgrade the S to make it into a true luxury car. And I'm sure that they're working on it like mad. I was really hoping that we'd see that around the time of the 3 reveal. But we're hearing noises about minor features being added to the S: wifi hotspot, 360 vision, auto-adjusting steering column, etc... All of those features are software only and are easy wins for differentiating the S and 3. That makes me wonder if the S upgrade is further off.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

No. Tesla will continue strongly to promote the S/X over the Model 3 until the Model 3 production and margins are high enough that it can promote both.

 

[dsvick]

I can't afford an S so that isn't even an option, but, I'll be honest, it has made me question my decision to buy a model 3 at all. I'm getting the 3 a couple of years before I normally would have got a new car because I thought there would be a several year wait and I wanted to get the tax credit. I enjoy the tech and the features in a car and the 3 sounded, initially, like it would be the perfect car. The more they talk down the 3 the more I question that.

I'm not going to do anything rash and cancel my reservation yet, I'll wait until we know all the options and all the prices then decide if I'll back out and wait for the competition to come along in a couple of years. Right now I'm hoping it really is a lot of anti-selling and that there will be decent features and options available at reasonable prices. Hopefully, we'll know in a couple of months.

 

[flamingoezz]

The anti-sell got to me.

I'd be shocked if more than 10% of Model 3 reservers have the means and desire to purchase a Model S. To alienate the other 90% of those customers (repeatedly) to expedite cashing in on that 10% seems in poor taste. Maybe it makes business sense -- they get another 5-8K in profit now, vs making 12-15K in 2 years (since someone in line essentially takes my spot, the back of the line is where they actually lose money).

I put a deposit down on a 2018 XC60. Count me in the group that could afford a well-optioned M3, but not a model S.

 

[jbcarioca]

The anti-sell got to me.

I'd be shocked if more than 10% of Model 3 reservers have the means and desire to purchase a Model S. To alienate the other 90% of those customers (repeatedly) to expedite cashing in on that 10% seems in poor taste. Maybe it makes business sense -- they get another 5-8K in profit now, vs making 12-15K in 2 years (since someone in line essentially takes my spot, the back of the line is where they actually lose money).

I put a deposit down on a 2018 XC60. Count me in the group that could afford a well-optioned M3, but not a model S.

I'm debating between XC90 and XC60 for Rio de Janeiro. I'm guessing Model 3 will not arrive here for another couple of years, and Model S/X maybe shortly after but unlikely before, since charging infrastructure remains to be established.
Clearly I'll hold out for my Model 3 in Florida, which I expect within the next 6-8 months, but if I'm not utterly impressed I'll trade my S for the new S, whenever it happens.

 

[runis]

I can't. Sure, there are some people who were born into money and dropping $100k on a vehicle is nothing to them. But I bet the vast majority of people here are more like me. I didn't grow up with much and I've worked hard for everything I have. Through hard work and smart investments I built up a nice nest egg, I have my kids' education funds set aside, retirement funds, investment properties, and a recreational property. I was never interested in wasting money on a fancy car. All of my money went back into trying to make more money, not flushing it down the toilet, which is what you basically do driving a new, expensive vehicle off the lot.

Then Tesla came along, and I become interested for a variety of reasons, so I went for a test drive, and ordered the next day.

So I can relate to what you say in your post except the part that I need to acknowledge the Model 3 is not aimed at people who can drop $100k on a vehicle. While that may not be Tesla's aim, I ran towards their dart and it struck me bulls-eye. I can't wait for my Model 3, and I'll also be keeping my S.

And I'm certain there's many more of me out there.

Agree 100% with this.

 

[flamingoezz]

I know realistically the Model 3 is going to be the best car I've personally ever owned. That said it's also going to be the most expensive car I've ever owned even if I get the base model. Why do they want people like me to feel crappy about the future purchase?

^^ THIS
Preach Dr. Phil!

Tesla needs to realize the market for Model 3 is not people who have or could even envision affording a Model S. I would think it is primarily people who own 20-30K cars who are making a jump, aided by a tax credit, and have dreamt of owning a Tesla. Don't s#!t on their dreams after holding 1K of the money, in many cases, that they could really use in their bank account over the past 1+ year

 

[flamingoezz]

I take no offense to the internal document that leaked. Tesla should train their employees to know the differences in their cars and try to upsell customers WHO ENTER THEIR STORES OR INQUIRE ABOUT THEIR PRODUCTS. My gripe is with constant tweets from Elon or posts to their site to point out the shortcomings to those who have made their decision and given 1K of their money to reserve the product for the past year.

I can't. Sure, there are some people who were born into money and dropping $100k on a vehicle is nothing to them. But I bet the vast majority of people here are more like me. I didn't grow up with much and I've worked hard for everything I have. Through hard work and smart investments I built up a nice nest egg, I have my kids' education funds set aside, retirement funds, investment properties, and a recreational property. I was never interested in wasting money on a fancy car. All of my money went back into trying to make more money, not flushing it down the toilet, which is what you basically do driving a new, expensive vehicle off the lot.

Then Tesla came along, and I become interested for a variety of reasons, so I went for a test drive, and ordered the next day.

So I can relate to what you say in your post except the part that I need to acknowledge the Model 3 is not aimed at people who can drop $100k on a vehicle. While that may not be Tesla's aim, I ran towards their dart and it struck me bulls-eye. I can't wait for my Model 3, and I'll also be keeping my S.

And I'm certain there's many more of me out there.

 

[gregincal]

The anti-sell got to me.

I'd be shocked if more than 10% of Model 3 reservers have the means and desire to purchase a Model S. To alienate the other 90% of those customers (repeatedly) to expedite cashing in on that 10% seems in poor taste. Maybe it makes business sense -- they get another 5-8K in profit now, vs making 12-15K in 2 years (since someone in line essentially takes my spot, the back of the line is where they actually lose money).

I put a deposit down on a 2018 XC60. Count me in the group that could afford a well-optioned M3, but not a model S.

You guys do realize that the vast majority of the Model 3 reservationists don't hang out on forums like this and have no idea that this "anti-selling" is even taking place. All they will see is the incredible roll-out and great reviews (one hopes) of the Model 3 and be all excited. Tesla has said the Model 3 won't be as good as the Model S or X. Fine, but that doesn't mean it won't be better than every other EV out there.

 

[SageBrush]

So I can relate to what you say in your post except the part that I need to acknowledge the Model 3 is not aimed at people who can drop $100k on a vehicle. While that may not be Tesla's aim, I ran towards their dart and it struck me bulls-eye. I can't wait for my Model 3, and I'll also be keeping my S.

Two things have kept me from buying a Model S:

No chance for a test drive (and I heeded the warnings of people here of the danger);
My wife

 

[flamingoezz]

They may not hang out on the forum, but I've seen articles about it on tesla's site, elons twitter, yahoo, every EV related site or tesla enthusiast site (electrek, ev insider, teslarati), auto-related sites (car & driver, motortrend, autoblog). It has popped up in my Google now feed. It's not like the notion of anti-selling is relegated to this forum. You almost have to have no interest in EVs or cars in general to have not seen something about it in the last 6 months.

You guys do realize that the vast majority of the Model 3 reservationists don't hang out on forums like this and have no idea that this "anti-selling" is even taking place. All they will see is the incredible roll-out and great reviews (one hopes) of the Model 3 and be all excited. Tesla has said the Model 3 won't be as good as the Model S or X. Fine, but that doesn't mean it won't be better than every other EV out there.

 

[Runt8]

The anti-sell got to me.

I'd be shocked if more than 10% of Model 3 reservers have the means and desire to purchase a Model S. To alienate the other 90% of those customers (repeatedly) to expedite cashing in on that 10% seems in poor taste. Maybe it makes business sense -- they get another 5-8K in profit now, vs making 12-15K in 2 years (since someone in line essentially takes my spot, the back of the line is where they actually lose money).

I put a deposit down on a 2018 XC60. Count me in the group that could afford a well-optioned M3, but not a model S.

I don't really get this attitude. All Tesla is saying is that their models that are twice as expensive are going to be better. It's not like they're saying the M3 is going to be a bad car, just that the S and X are better cars.

Maybe it's just the hype bubble being popped - people who assume that a $35k car is going to be identical or better to the $75k-$100k one, just smaller.

 

[jelloslug]

The idea that people are getting all hot and bothered by Tesla trying to sell cars today is idiotic.

 

[Foxhound199]

I'm much more bothered by how easily people buy into the anti-sell. Read quite a few people throwing a tizzy over it, saying they would cancel their order, sight unseen. Really? Do they not understand how marketing works? Tesla has an obligation to sell as many Model S and X cars as they can before the Model 3 gets cooking. That's all fair game. But think about this, would they really cripple the Model 3 for a quarter or two of increased Model S sales if it meant missing the mark on what's sure to be their biggest seller for years to come? I don't think so. The 3 will exceed expectations, and that's why they're anti-selling it and keeping the final reveal under wraps.

 

[daniel]

I don't see the so-called anti-selling the way many here seem to. I see it as Elon simply being straightforward about what the Model 3 is and is not. A lot of people felt that the Model 3 would be a cheaper, smaller Model S. I kind of had that feeling at first as well. People buying with that expectation would be very disappointed. Elon (IMO) wants to avoid that by making it clear that at half the price you will get half the car, not merely a smaller car.

When they announced that P-AWD would be delayed by nine months to a year, I very briefly considered a Model S. I actually went on line and found a CPO P85D. The price looked okay. But when I went out to my garage and compared to size to my 2004 Prius (which is already a bigger car than I need or really want) I said "NO WAY!"

And it's perfectly rational, with two or three times as many reservations as they expected, and a delay of a full year for delivery of a Model 3 ordered now, for them to encourage people who can afford a Model S and want that big a car, to get that instead.

So, what some folks see as "anti-selling" the 3, I see as an attempt to manage expectations and balance demand with production capacity.

 

[N5329K]

Tesla is walking a tightrope. The S/X is keeping the company afloat. I'm sure that they would LOVE to talk-up the Model 3, but that would be corporate suicide.

Certainly Tesla has to upgrade the S to make it into a true luxury car. And I'm sure that they're working on it like mad. I was really hoping that we'd see that around the time of the 3 reveal. But we're hearing noises about minor features being added to the S: wifi hotspot, 360 vision, auto-adjusting steering column, etc... All of those features are software only and are easy wins for differentiating the S and 3. That makes me wonder if the S upgrade is further off.

Big savings in battery costs should allow Tesla to add back in enough dollars to make the S an actual luxury car with respect to fit and finish. That's how they can product differentiate with the Model 3. When I bought a Prius, I didn't need Toyota nagging me that it wasn't a Lexus.
Robin

 

[MXWing]

Anyone here got anti-sold to the point of buying a Bolt? The one where you drive 100 miles and turn back around because you have no way to charge 185 miles in 25 minutes?

 

[MXWing]

The Model S is the most awesome car on the road for $70k. The Model 3 is going to be the most awesome car on the road for $35k.

Credits/incentives pay for autopilot software packages on both.

Not sure why this thread is two pages?

 

[ConcordeSST]

Everything everyone has stated here regarding the logic behind why Tesla is doing this is sound. It is entirely logical in my opinion for Tesla to want to manage expectations. However, remember that emotion really isn't logical (think Spock in Star Trek). I will say that despite having this understanding of the logical reasons and constantly reminding myself why they are doing it, the anti-selling is simply depressing to hear because, on an emotional level, I want to hear positive news about the thing I am about to spend 35K+ on. With any massive purchase, I think we understandably want to hear things that help us justify the purchase. I still badly want a Model 3 and I feel that even with its shortcomings relative to the S, it will still be the best EV I can afford. My hope is that the depressing emotions related to the anti-selling will vanish once I finally get the car and can enjoy what it is, and not worry about what it is not.