Anyone else tired of the "anti" selling of M3?

[Big-T]

..... I just want the M3 to be the best car it can be and not artificially limited to less-than the MS/MX at every decision. </VENT>

THIS RIGHT HERE

I'm less concerned about the words coming out of Tesla's mouths, (aka the anti-selling) even if it is annoying. But I am concerned that some of the design decisions are being implemented specifically for no other reason than to be less-than the MS/MX. Here's a couple examples:

0-60 time .1 seconds slower than the S = Really, point 1 seconds? That's just waaay to convenient of a difference to be anything besides a specific way to check of the "inferior" box in 0-60 times.
No Instrument Cluster = All the various reasons have been discussed to death, but until I see a model S/X refresh that do away with an Instrument Cluster the reason given that model 3 owners "won't miss it' is just garbage. A Model 3 owner will miss it just as much (or little) as a Model S/X owner will miss it. Tesla can tweak the UI overnight to put a speedo in the upper left corner of the Model S/X center screen. Further verified by one vs two screens being a lovely bullet point on the latest revealed slide
Under 100 configurations = With almost no details to work with on what configs will or will not be possible it's hard to be specific but I'm just waiting for further inferiority here. Not quite sure what, No premium stereo option comes to mind as an example

Look, I get all the arguments for simplification, I get all talk about having to ramp up production. But in my mind this mantra of the Model 3 needing to be inferior to prop up model S/X sales is just wrong. The Model 3 is what's supposed to take EV's mainstream. This car , should , be winning car of the year, it should break the Consumer Reports scorecard, it should be the raved in every professional car review. It has the possibility to do so if created correctly. Why would you cripple it for what's essentially always going to be a niche car (the S/X)

As it stands now, every article, review, blog, and video will spend the first quarter of the time talking about the minimalistic interior and lack of an instrument cluster before they get to anything else. Every model 3 owner will have the same discussions with their friends about it, explaining (to varying degrees of enthusiasm) about how it's really not nessisary, no really.

 

[Foxhound199]

With almost no details to work with on what configs will or will not be possible it's hard to be specific but I'm just waiting for further inferiority here. Not quite sure what, No premium stereo option comes to mind as an example

Yeah, this is kind of a weird point that I sort of overlooked because I'm not big on options anyway. But to me, it seems like it would be a better strategy to use the degree of customization available as a key benefit of the manufacturer direct sales method rather than an S/X over 3 benefit. Sure, simplifying options simplifies production, but things like paint color and option packages come in predetermined flavors first and foremost so that dealers can stock a representative sampling on their lots. It seems like a silly advantage to throw away over wanting to keep your premium models more premium.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The idea that people are getting all hot and bothered by Tesla trying to sell cars today is idiotic.

Perhaps you are looking at it the wrong way. People are getting hot and bothered by sales tactics that they find, well to use your word, idiotic.

You don't have to agree with them, but this is IMO what the displeasure is about. Not the fact that Tesla sells, but how it sells.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

As it stands now, every article, review, blog, and video will spend the first quarter of the time talking about the minimalistic interior and lack of an instrument cluster before they get to anything else. Every model 3 owner will have the same discussions with their friends about it, explaining (to varying degrees of enthusiasm) about how it's really not nessisary, no really.

This here - together with the lack of a hatch - is what I wish Tesla could have avoided with the Model 3. They should have cut down on all possible adoption obstacles and made it a versatile care like Model S. Sure, make things smaller and put in smaller screens and less powerful stuff, and make more things cost options, but keep the versatility and normalness that were the driving force of the Model S. Make sure nothing reeks of a weirdmobile...

Now the dash is a bit weird. And that's too bad. And the back of the car is not as versatile as it could be, because they wanted the weird huge back window. Too bad. It won't stop the success, it these are unnecessary diversions and will harm some purchases.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

No. Tesla will continue strongly to promote the S/X over the Model 3 until the Model 3 production and margins are high enough that it can promote both.

This, of course, is Tesla's reason and problem - and why all this is happening.

If only there was some other way... like buying advertisements for Model S... and/or putting Model S on a traditional campaign with discounted features or the like...

 

[flamingoezz]

I think a portion of it is hype-bubble for me. I did think there would be a HUD. I did think we'd have more flex in choosing options. I'd be lying if I said there wasn't some disappointment in that, but I think the remainder of my gripe is with feeling like the less loved child.

It's like a mom shouting from the mountaintops about how great one kid is, then mentions the other -- oh yea, he's shorter, not as good at math.

Sure, model S may be more expensive and have abilities the 3 doesn't...but love your inventions equally Elon.

I don't really get this attitude. All Tesla is saying is that their models that are twice as expensive are going to be better. It's not like they're saying the M3 is going to be a bad car, just that the S and X are better cars.

Maybe it's just the hype bubble being popped - people who assume that a $35k car is going to be identical or better to the $75k-$100k one, just smaller.

 

[Carl]

The problem with anti-selling the M3 is, well, that it may be better at anti-selling the M3 than selling the MS . I would have thought, around this time, Tesla would have either brought the price of the MS back to 2014 levels (all things remaining equal) or packed it with some unexpected new goodies and have a "re-launch" of the MS (or, better still, both!).

 

[Sonny Daze]

I'm not going to spend tens of thousands of dollars based on a few tweets. If they wanted me to buy an S this quarter, they should have had a reveal and announced all the options and prices and let me decide how much better the S is.

 

[sandpiper]

I'm not going to spend tens of thousands of dollars based on a few tweets. If they wanted me to buy an S this quarter, they should have had a reveal and announced all the options and prices and let me decide how much better the S is.

I like to think about what I would do in the situation:

1. You've got the model 3 coming out in 2-3 months. It's highly anticipated, but won't add a cent to your profit for at least 1.5 to 2 years.

2. There's a noticeable drop in sales for the Model S - the car keeping you alive. Market research says that quite a few existing or potential S owners are looking to move to the 3, or are waiting to see the 3 until they decide what to do for their next car.

3. If S sales drop, you've got a MAJOR problem: liquidity, public perception, stock price, etc. You risk a financial downward spiral.

4. You don't have a new upgrade for the S ready yet., which is what you need to truly differentiate it. And perhaps not for 6-12 months.

5. There is no realistic prospect of any real competition for 2-3 years.

6. There is more demand for the 3, than what you can possibly sell.

Given the above facts, I'd be leaning toward down selling the 3 as well. They can afford a bit of a hit on the 3 reservations, to keep the S sales up. It's the lesser of 2 evils. The next 2 years are going to be very precarious for Tesla. I give it a 50% likelihood of coming out of the next 3 years as an independent company.

 

[flamingoezz]

I think there are good ways to do that -- for example, Tesla removed incentives in supercharging, removed lower battery capacities to spur buying now for those on the fence. this is good.

Telling people at the unveiling that this is a great, great car. Putting their money in your bank account for a year, then telling them -- that car over there is a great, great car..the one you are getting is alright. this is not good.

I'm much more bothered by how easily people buy into the anti-sell. Read quite a few people throwing a tizzy over it, saying they would cancel their order, sight unseen. Really? Do they not understand how marketing works? Tesla has an obligation to sell as many Model S and X cars as they can before the Model 3 gets cooking. That's all fair game. But think about this, would they really cripple the Model 3 for a quarter or two of increased Model S sales if it meant missing the mark on what's sure to be their biggest seller for years to come? I don't think so. The 3 will exceed expectations, and that's why they're anti-selling it and keeping the final reveal under wraps.

 

[MXWing]

Everything everyone has stated here regarding the logic behind why Tesla is doing this is sound. It is entirely logical in my opinion for Tesla to want to manage expectations. However, remember that emotion really isn't logical (think Spock in Star Trek). I will say that despite having this understanding of the logical reasons and constantly reminding myself why they are doing it, the anti-selling is simply depressing to hear because, on an emotional level, I want to hear positive news about the thing I am about to spend 35K+ on. With any massive purchase, I think we understandably want to hear things that help us justify the purchase. I still badly want a Model 3 and I feel that even with its shortcomings relative to the S, it will still be the best EV I can afford. My hope is that the depressing emotions related to the anti-selling will vanish once I finally get the car and can enjoy what it is, and not worry about what it is not.

The anti-selling is really a joke - don't take it seriously. The bottom 200,000 reservations would be thrilled if the first 200,000 cancel.

I am very excited for the 3. What I've seen is more than good enough for the price point. It's going to be tons better than the Chevy Volt I'm replacing with it - guaranteed.

The argument some people are making is the 3 doesn't have ENOUGH shortcomings relative to the S. So as a TSLA shareholder, that concerns me.

Funny how it looks seeing it from all angles right?

 

[Foxhound199]

Telling people at the unveiling that this is a great, great car. Putting their money in your bank account for a year, then telling them -- that car over there is a great, great car..the one you are getting is alright. this is not good.

Which is why I think it's utter nonsense. People won't be getting a disappointing car. The proverbial cat will be out of the bag in July, and I think all those people who saved and waited patiently will be well-rewarded, regardless of what they are saying now.

 

[JeffK]

The anti-selling is really a joke - don't take it seriously. The bottom 200,000 reservations would be thrilled if the first 200,000 cancel.

I am very excited for the 3. What I've seen is more than good enough for the price point. It's going to be tons better than the Chevy Volt I'm replacing with it - guaranteed.

The argument some people are making is the 3 doesn't have ENOUGH shortcomings relative to the S. So as a TSLA shareholder, that concerns me.

Funny how it looks seeing it from all angles right?

Realistically, they could drop the price of the Model S and still maintain the same margins the second they switch to 2170s without any other changes... What's going to make them money is selling in volume. Past the next few quarters the differentiation doesn't matter one bit.

These sales only matter in the short term as a bridge until Model 3 sales start rolling in. It's probably best not to give people the wrong impressions about your future money maker which will bring in far more revenue than Model S/X. My hope is that in July they blow our socks off.

 

[MXWing]

Elon mentioned anti-selling once? And all the points he said made sense.

TMC totally ran off the rails and see everything as a big conspiracy to make the M3 as junky as possible as long as people buy it. I really don't believe this is the case.

 

[sandpiper]

I think there are good ways to do that -- for example, Tesla removed incentives in supercharging, removed lower battery capacities to spur buying now for those on the fence. this is good.

Telling people at the unveiling that this is a great, great car. Putting their money in your bank account for a year, then telling them -- that car over there is a great, great car..the one you are getting is alright. this is not good.

Hind sight is 20/20. They didn't expect the response that they got for the model 3. They needed the excitement to get the money to let them build the factory. And they overshot by a mile.

In the last few months, they've seen S sales dropping, because of expectations that the 3 was going to be better than the S in a lot of regards. Tesla needed to temper that - both so that people aren't disappointed with the 3, and so that they don't sink the sales on the S, thus sinking the company.

They have an incredible balancing act to perform for the next 2 years. Anybody who figures that they can do better should apply to Elon for a job immediately. Assuming that your resume bears out your capabilities, I'm sure he'd hire you for big $$$.

 

[daniel]

I think the final reveal will put the negativity to bed. The problem is that we all want to know the specs and final design features, and right now all we have is "It won't be an S." Once we know what the car IS, rather than what it is not, we will be able to start talking about all the positive stuff. It will be an amazing car. We just have to have a bit of patience for the details.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

In the last few months, they've seen S sales dropping, because of expectations that the 3 was going to be better than the S in a lot of regards.

I get it that is the reason they are putting out there, but are we really sure that is the reason Model S sales are dropping?

I'm not so sure people have been expecting Model 3 to be better than Mode S in any significant numbers.

What I am finding much more likely is that many are finding it likely Model 3 will be better value for them. And that Model S will get some updates alongside or after Model 3 (e.g. the new battery), so it makes sense to wait and see.

Had I not ordered my Model X in Q2/2016 (and reserved in 2014), and were instead in the market only now, I would definitely have waited beyond the final Model 3 unveil before ordering even a Model X.

It just makes sense to wait and see. Even if you are buying a Model X, because there may be changes that affect even that model. Rushing into a purchase now - unless absolutely necessary - may not be the wisest thing.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Maybe we are reading way to much into this.

Elon is simply saying that the S and X are available right now for quick delivery, and might be a great alternative for people with deposits on the Model 3.

Wants to temper expectations for the Model 3, as some have posted that they expect the 3 to be an even better car than it will be when released.

If you want ultra performance, long range, seating options, etc, perhaps the S might be an alternative right now.

That is why they have extended unlimited lifetime supercharging, discounted prices on 60 battery models, etc.

By moving some of the remarkable demand for the 3 into existing models, it takes some of the pressure off the company to ramp up production of the 3 faster than feasible

 

[Zaphod]

In my opinion, this to me feels like being "penny wise and pound foolish". Yes, they need to maintain/increase S/X sales until 3 is launched and being profitable but I don't see this approach bearing fruit they are hoping for. Maybe I am way off, but I don't see conversion rate of reservation holders swinging to an S in any significant amount. I guess any profit now is better than profit later, but still comes off as short-sighted.

Of course I am just being selfish too, since I want a well-optioned performance version instead of stripped S.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Elon is simply saying that the S and X are available right now for quick delivery,

No, I think what Elon and Tesla are "simply saying" is that they need sales now. Not just next quarter.