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Audi Q6 e-tron EV
- Thread starter Tharo
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- Electric Vehicles
seattlite2004
Active Member
Sean Wagner
Member
I like the comments as much as the article, which seems distinguished by the writer's occupation [as a German automotive engineer].
We almost all know by now that even if cars and transportation remained the same but for an upgrade in motive systems, the manufacturing workforce involved will shrink drastically. Germany may delay this reckoning, but not evade it.
Yet the local companies have demonstrated their ability to know and competently supply the markets they operate in by rising to the global top with cars that are tailored to local tastes. Check the top ten best selling vehicles in China - Volkswagen dominates the world's biggest market by far.
Likewise, German [and European and Asian] suppliers dominate the gigantic world market. A lot of the industry's innovative mojo presently resides there, which has also facilitated Tesla's rise. Of the top ten biggest global suppliers, sadly none is American. And many of these first as well as the second tier firms are investing substantial amounts of money in support of electrification, with their main spur and focus being the Chinese market. There's also inevitably a transfer or diffusion of technology involved.
The constraints on German vehicle manufacurers are their established customer, dealer, and knowledge base, as well as battery supply. They do have advantages too, like ready access to immense amounts of capital and problem solving smarts. I also expect the VW I.D. series of cars to sell very well if they're adequately supported, and in China, companies are forced to engage with EVs by government mandate - tens of billions are currently flowing into the country.
There's seemingly no way China will not dominate the electric vehicle landscape what with the US government trying hard to move anyway but forward, while Europe seemingly can't quite decide where to go courtesy of German indecision.
Lastly, the shape of current and future vehicles is beginning to shift.
For laughs and mental gymnastics, think autonomous scooters or motorized wheelchairs on dedicated lanes combined with traffic-aware grouping and routing. Or autonomous trams the size of a Tesla pod proposed for the Boring Co.'s Chicago tunnel. Physical speed is not everything when everyone's permanently connected.
I do hope that the never-ending push by Tesla to innovate will trigger a positive feedback loop involving budding local robotics [software] companies. Aside from autonomous vehicles, this is where a lot of change might happen and specialized knowledge be developed even after EVs become commodities.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
He identifies himself as a German engineer. Doesn't say what industry. Does say he has analyzed every current and future EV so does have some expertise.
seattlite2004
Active Member
Guess Audi likes to test in house rather than release "beta" and have the customer to the testing for them? Also...they don't have an earnings crunch...so delay to make sure they deliver a complete product.
Also...the article state a "regulatory clearance" cuz they modified SW....hmm....must be an EU thing..wonder how Tesla is gonna cope with the "regulatory clearance" since it changes SW pretty frequently.
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thegruf
Active Member
actually I think this is more telling:
"The e-tron delays were first reported by German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, citing sources close to the company. The paper said delivery could be delayed by several months.
The paper also said Audi was locked in price negotiations with LG Chem, the South-Korean supplier of batteries for its electric vehicles, which wants to increase prices by about 10 percent because of high demand"
VW and all the other automotive companies are almost totally reliant on 3rd party suppliers for batteries, a 10% rise in battery cost will all but wipe out any profitability unless the sell price changes in line with this which in turn would put Audi at a price disadvantage. Who knows if there's more hikes in the pipeline too.
In the first year or two a price disadvantage will not have any real effect as there will be enough pent up demand from buyers who are committed Audi-philes and prepared to accept VAG Audi lies and deceit over emissions, but be in no doubt how worried VAG Audi and others will be about Tesla's profitability over time (before the shorts kick in with their diatribe). Automotive is a long game.
"The e-tron delays were first reported by German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, citing sources close to the company. The paper said delivery could be delayed by several months.
The paper also said Audi was locked in price negotiations with LG Chem, the South-Korean supplier of batteries for its electric vehicles, which wants to increase prices by about 10 percent because of high demand"
VW and all the other automotive companies are almost totally reliant on 3rd party suppliers for batteries, a 10% rise in battery cost will all but wipe out any profitability unless the sell price changes in line with this which in turn would put Audi at a price disadvantage. Who knows if there's more hikes in the pipeline too.
In the first year or two a price disadvantage will not have any real effect as there will be enough pent up demand from buyers who are committed Audi-philes and prepared to accept VAG Audi lies and deceit over emissions, but be in no doubt how worried VAG Audi and others will be about Tesla's profitability over time (before the shorts kick in with their diatribe). Automotive is a long game.
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
This car remains vaporware for quite some time. It also shows that they don't have the ability for over-the-air updates. Further, I expect price increases due to the battery supplier issue mentioned before.
Hope for something better is nothing else than a delayed disappointment. For those who waited for the e-tron, I still recommend considering a Model X75D instead.
Hope for something better is nothing else than a delayed disappointment. For those who waited for the e-tron, I still recommend considering a Model X75D instead.
Brando
Active Member
BUT your post expressed some fine ideas. (from the article @mspohr)
Tesla, An Uncomfortable Wake-Up Call For Germany. All Hands On Deck! | CleanTechnica
thanks
German auto makers better get moving. Elephant in the room, as we say, BATTERIES.
Second problem might be actually competing against Tesla offerings. Customers will decide.
Brando
Active Member
VOLUME makes a BIG difference. and with EVs so do batteries which are on a downward trend for decades. Similar to solar panels it doesn't happen over night - but the trend is clearly there.
mtndrew1
Active Member
I happen to live in an area where automakers test prototype cars and an eTron with Michigan manufacturer plates was pacing me for part of my commute this morning.
The car is handsome but unremarkable and could be mistaken for any other Audi crossover.
Teslabjorn has a video showing eTron features and claims they’re targeting 250 miles WLTP, which would be about 235 miles EPA out of a 95 kWh pack so it might be an energy pig like the I-Pace.
Aside from the lovely interior I don’t see much Audi is bringing to the table for $85,000. Tesla is one interior refresh away from clobbering it competitively.
The car is handsome but unremarkable and could be mistaken for any other Audi crossover.
Teslabjorn has a video showing eTron features and claims they’re targeting 250 miles WLTP, which would be about 235 miles EPA out of a 95 kWh pack so it might be an energy pig like the I-Pace.
Aside from the lovely interior I don’t see much Audi is bringing to the table for $85,000. Tesla is one interior refresh away from clobbering it competitively.
I saw the E-tron briefly at one of the closed shows here in Norway, and Teslabjørn is spot on in his analysis. It is just an inch roomier than the I-pace here and there, typical european family sized estate wagon. Boring exterior design though.
Nice necro-bump. Now you can buy the V90 and V90 Cross Country in USA. However, only with T5 FWD and T6 AWD powertrains. T8 PHEV is not available. To my eyes it's a sweet body and I wish Tesla would make something like it. Of course the long hood is unnecessary for an EV.
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