mspohr
Well-Known Member
Most of those are 50 kW CCS stations... it will be a while for 150 kW stations to be as common as Tesla Superchargers (especially in the US).
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Audi Q6 e-tron EV
- Thread starter Tharo
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tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
The only model available first is the edition one for 86'700 USD (excl. MwSt.). The 79k € model will not be available till the end of 2019 or beginning 2020.
Not true.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The Audi is a much smaller 4 passenger car than the 7 passenger X.The only model available first is the edition one for 86'700 USD (excl. MwSt.). The 79k € model will not be available till the end of 2019 or beginning 2020.
Not true.
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
The disappointing thing is that after years of hyping the car, the result is far below the expectations. I would have expected something better than a 2015 model X from a company with that kind of money and expertise. There is no USP. No technical excellence. Except for the virtual mirrors, there is no advancement in technology. Basicaly, this is 2011 technology in terms of the drivetrain and charging technology, the year Tesla invented the stuff for the Model S. Audi does not set a new bar with a 2019 model. One of the biggest manufacturers in the world should do better. It is an expensive low-volume product that will be toasted this march by the new mid-sized SUV benchmark Tesla is going to set with the Y. Massage seats? Heads-Up-Display? Come on. These are cool gimmiks, but do they really advance technology and transportation? No, they don't. This is stuff you expect from a legacy manufacturer and stuff you can order in many premium cars anyway. Autonomy, electric drivetrain, price - not a single area that Audi is pushing forward.
TL;DR One more not a Tesla Killer...
Someone above mentioned the UBS analyst, who isn't a Tesla believer, and still points out that Tesla is far ahead of Audi on this car:
UBS says Audi's new electric car shows industry has a long way to go to catch Tesla
Here are the high points: "The Audi "e-tron underscores that catching up with Tesla is more difficult than expected by many," analyst Patrick Hummel said in a note to clients entitled "Audi e-tron launch - another lap Tesla wins" Tuesday. "While we appreciate that a solid EV product is not only about acceleration and range, there is still a gap to Tesla in the powertrain efficiency ratios that reflect the degree of innovation. The electric powertrain is not a commodity yet and Tesla might be able to sustain its lead for longer."
And then this: "Hummel noted the e-tron will get 30 miles to 50 miles less range than the Tesla Model X and will accelerate "significantly slower." He said the Audi electric vehicle's disappointing metrics will hurt its sales and benefit Tesla."
You would think that given this, the Model Y would eat the Audi up. And as others have speculated, a Model X refresh with a lower cost 2170 battery pack could erode any price advantage the Audi has lickety split. If this Audi starts eating away at the Model X sales, Tesla just lowers the Model X price a bit to gain back share. Tesla is so far ahead in the battery game, they will be able to do that.
Also, anyone buying this Audi is buying first generation battery technology. Hoping there is no: 1) Phoenix heat related degradation, 2) VW Leaf rapid gate lower rate charging on long trips, or 3) long term battery degradation not covered by 1 or 2, that we know Tesla does not have.
Don't even get me started on the non-Tesla fast charging network here in the U.S....
RT
Someone above mentioned the UBS analyst, who isn't a Tesla believer, and still points out that Tesla is far ahead of Audi on this car:
UBS says Audi's new electric car shows industry has a long way to go to catch Tesla
Here are the high points: "The Audi "e-tron underscores that catching up with Tesla is more difficult than expected by many," analyst Patrick Hummel said in a note to clients entitled "Audi e-tron launch - another lap Tesla wins" Tuesday. "While we appreciate that a solid EV product is not only about acceleration and range, there is still a gap to Tesla in the powertrain efficiency ratios that reflect the degree of innovation. The electric powertrain is not a commodity yet and Tesla might be able to sustain its lead for longer."
And then this: "Hummel noted the e-tron will get 30 miles to 50 miles less range than the Tesla Model X and will accelerate "significantly slower." He said the Audi electric vehicle's disappointing metrics will hurt its sales and benefit Tesla."
You would think that given this, the Model Y would eat the Audi up. And as others have speculated, a Model X refresh with a lower cost 2170 battery pack could erode any price advantage the Audi has lickety split. If this Audi starts eating away at the Model X sales, Tesla just lowers the Model X price a bit to gain back share. Tesla is so far ahead in the battery game, they will be able to do that.
Also, anyone buying this Audi is buying first generation battery technology. Hoping there is no: 1) Phoenix heat related degradation, 2) VW Leaf rapid gate lower rate charging on long trips, or 3) long term battery degradation not covered by 1 or 2, that we know Tesla does not have.
Don't even get me started on the non-Tesla fast charging network here in the U.S....
RT
Eno Deb
Active Member
I doubt it will take anywhere near this long. BTW, the "Special Edition" model isn't even mentioned in Europe, so that seems to be a US only thing.
The German FAQ says this:
14. Wann wird mein persönliches Fahrzeug geliefert? -
Mit einer Auslieferung von Fahrzeugen des Modells Audi e-tron kann voraussichtlich ab Februar 2019 gerechnet werden.[...]
Translation:
14. When will my personal vehicle be delivered?
The delivery of Audi e-tron vehicles can be expected starting February 2019. [...]
Supposedly it will be comfortable for 5 passengers. From the specifications it's bigger than a Q5.
When you look at the FAQ though it seems pretty old already.
The FAQ is stating that dates will be added once the prodcution starts which as we know has already happened. I also saw in 3 different articels now the date of end 2018 for the first reservists to get their cars.
Also several journalists said 400km WLTP though I haven`t found an official audi source for this and 450 Imagined km to 400 WLTP seems rather optimistic.
Oh well, this is leaps and bounds beyond Merc`s EQC at least.
I´m actually looking forward to the first real reviews.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I think it has just been updated (the reservation system just opened yesterday).
That's likely a limited production run that's alluded to in the FAQ as well:
"Bitte beachten Sie, dass eine begrenzte Anzahl von Fahrzeugen für interne Zwecke der AUDI AG oder mit dieser verbundener Unternehmen vor Beginn der Auslieferung an Kunden ausgeliefert wird."
Valore
Member
150kW into a 95kWh battery is just a 1.58C charge.
It's significantly lower than Hyundai Ioniq, that does 70kW into 28kWh battery, which is a 2.5C charge.
The Audi appears to have proper battery cooling also to allow great charging.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
"Tesla Model X 100D estimated range based on manufacturer’s data with 100 kWh battery using 120 kW DC charger (“Tesla Supercharger”). Calculated value based on manufacturer’s stated battery charge time of 0-50% in 50 minutes"
Anyone know where Audi get that figure from?
My MS Supercharging is linear 5 minutes per 10% from 0% to 60% - i.e. 0% - 60% in 30 minutes - so seems highly improbable that Tesla published specification would be so much slower than that?
That said, the 144.5 miles in 30 minutes might be right, so perhaps its a Typo in the Blurb (in which case Tut Tut!!)
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Or they don't really understand battery charging and are just pushing it and hoping for the best.
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Model 3 charges faster on a 120KW supercharger than the e-tron quttro on a 150 KW charger over the full 0-80% charging period.
IMO, buying this e-tron is a high risk currently. Audi has no long term expertise with large batteries in terms of durability and reliability. And not experience with a lot of high speed charges.
Tesla had the roadster before the S and the S before the X, so the battery pack of the X is sort of bullet proofed in the meantime. Also, the bugs in the drivetrain of S/X have been ironed out in the meantime, I doubt the e-tron quattro lives up to the same drivetrain quality as the Tesla cars. Then there is the lack of OTA for other things than media center. If there is an issue in the firmware of the drivetrain, charging or driving, you're forced to go to the Audi dealership.
I found out that the e-tron is not the first with virtual mirrors in production, it is a Lexus ES. Though that solution with simple added on top screens is ridicolous. I like the audi virtual mirrors a lot more.
IMO, buying this e-tron is a high risk currently. Audi has no long term expertise with large batteries in terms of durability and reliability. And not experience with a lot of high speed charges.
Tesla had the roadster before the S and the S before the X, so the battery pack of the X is sort of bullet proofed in the meantime. Also, the bugs in the drivetrain of S/X have been ironed out in the meantime, I doubt the e-tron quattro lives up to the same drivetrain quality as the Tesla cars. Then there is the lack of OTA for other things than media center. If there is an issue in the firmware of the drivetrain, charging or driving, you're forced to go to the Audi dealership.
I found out that the e-tron is not the first with virtual mirrors in production, it is a Lexus ES. Though that solution with simple added on top screens is ridicolous. I like the audi virtual mirrors a lot more.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Not sure that the virtual mirrors are worth it. You still have this odd stalk sticking out from the side of the car and the display could be problematic depending on lighting conditions.
FYI for folks in the SF area, you can see one of the new Electrify America 350 kW charger pedestals on display at Audi’s e-tron marketing pop-up through Saturday from 11am to 8pm at 90 Broadway St. in SF.
It just started this morning at 11am. Free lunch (at least today) as long as you don’t mind the risk of being filmed for marketing promotional use.
There’s a blue e-tron on display and you can get inside and play.
It just started this morning at 11am. Free lunch (at least today) as long as you don’t mind the risk of being filmed for marketing promotional use.
There’s a blue e-tron on display and you can get inside and play.
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Eno Deb
Active Member
Actually Tesla gained no experience with fast charging from the Roadster (since it was limited to about 16kW charging). There are ways to test batteries without building a car around them.
Audi (and the larger VW group) has done battery research for many years (they have a dedicated research facility for that, as well as collaborations with automotive research institutes in Germany). I wouldn't worry about that.I bet Audi has done much more extensive testing than Tesla did before releasing their cars. And it's not like Audi has no experience with high performance electric drive trains (e.g. through the R8 E-Tron)
We don't know yet what they can do OTA.
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Eno Deb
Active Member
Audi e-tron | The first purely electric SUV from Audi | Audi USA
"Every e-tron battery is covered by an 8 year or 100,000 mile (whichever occurs first) limited warrantyi for added peace of mind."
mspohr
Well-Known Member
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