Auto lane change on FSD

[Peteski]

I don’t know why they decided that the M3 needs a full press of the indicator to initiate a lane change, when the MS and MX only require a half press. I find that a bit annoying as an owner of both!

 

[Cardo]

I don’t know why they decided that the M3 needs a full press of the indicator to initiate a lane change, when the MS and MX only require a half press. I find that a bit annoying as an owner of both!

On NoA, I find I don’t need to do a full press of the indicator. A tap to confirm if the car is suggesting the lane change. If I’m initiating the lane change, a slight move and hold of the stalk until we’re pretty much in the other lane (it’ll abort if I let go too early) or a full press will complete the lane change without having to hold it.

 

[Avendit]

From the sounds FSD may take a pretty big leap in the next few months, at least in the US. Our regs probably mean we won't get any new features, but the ones we have may improve quite drastically, the investment may turn out to be interesting.

When I had a loaner S last week with fsd, it would only auto change on Mac on autopilot, but obviously couldn't put too many miles on it just now :-(

 

[Hurricane]

From the sounds FSD may take a pretty big leap in the next few months

I’ve invested in FSD so I really hope that’s true, but all the promises and predictions of the last couple of years have so far come to nothing. It does make me sceptical of any predictions made by the Musk.

 

[Avendit]

I’ve invested in FSD so I really hope that’s true, but all the promises and predictions of the last couple of years have so far come to nothing. It does make me sceptical of any predictions made by the Musk.

Depends on your expectations really I think. Watching the FSB beta videos it's clearly a step up on what we have just now, and they seem to be suggesting an op in beta in the US this (ish...) week.

What is unknown is how quickly that code will come over here at all, and if it does, if it will be backported to AP and EAP in suitability nutered forms.

All said tho, they are still licensing it in the US as 'level 2', is fully supervised. So even if it comes here, and the regs are updated you are still in charge of the car - no getting in and having the car drive you to your destination while you watch YouTube. And I'm not sure what the path to that looks like.

 

[Peteski]

Depends on your expectations really I think. Watching the FSB beta videos it's clearly a step up on what we have just now, and they seem to be suggesting an op in beta in the US this (ish...) week.

What is unknown is how quickly that code will come over here at all, and if it does, if it will be backported to AP and EAP in suitability nutered forms.

All said tho, they are still licensing it in the US as 'level 2', is fully supervised. So even if it comes here, and the regs are updated you are still in charge of the car - no getting in and having the car drive you to your destination while you watch YouTube. And I'm not sure what the path to that looks like.

I'm pretty sure that's a very loooooooooooong path! It gets exponentially harder to achieve as you get closer to the true FSD goal. Then there's the major issue of mixing autonomous and human driven cars on the same roads. I don't think it will happen this decade and probably not the following one either. I'd bet my house it won't happen in the next 3 years!

 

[Peteski]

On NoA, I find I don’t need to do a full press of the indicator. A tap to confirm if the car is suggesting the lane change. If I’m initiating the lane change, a slight move and hold of the stalk until we’re pretty much in the other lane (it’ll abort if I let go too early) or a full press will complete the lane change without having to hold it.

The MX works with just a single press whether in NoA or AP. The M3 doesn't in AP. So why not just make them behave in the same way?

 

[hgmichna]

Every time my car wants to do a lane change, I indicate but then have to give the steering wheel a slight nudge in that direction.

In any direction.

In my experience, the secret to getting lane changes to work without having them abort part way through is to apply gentle but contunuous torque on the steering wheel.

I cannot confirm this. I only give it a nudge to begin changing lanes. No further pressure needed. Doesn't hurt though.

It’s easier and less frustrating to just manually change lanes. It’s just a shame that you have to reset AP after every manual lane change.

I find ALC painfully slow to switch lanes. It takes forever and anyone coming up behind will think you are trying to wind them up.

I disagree. I think FSD does it exactly right.

Quick lange changes are dangerous. I admit that in theory lane changes could be done quicker if we can rely on FSD to watch in all directions with 100% reliability. But at least in Germany it cannot because of the high permitted speeds. What happens is that you drive at the recommended speed of 130 km/h, but another car approaches from behind at twice the speed. If the autopilot/FSD cameras miss that other car, you want the lane change be done very gently to leave time for the other car to brake and alert you of your mistake or perhaps to change lanes to avoid a collision.

 

[SJ_angeleyes21]

He's been looking at the US version, where you can have no-confirmation lane changing, that's not something we have in the UK.

Hi GRiLLA,
Thanks, so current UK Autopilot rule only allowed FSD or EAP to auto lane change on motorway eg M1, M4, not london North Circular, A1 etc. Also autopilot customised options have only two functions available rather than 4 options. Is it correct?

 

[Dilly]

Hi GRiLLA,
Thanks, so current UK Autopilot rule only allowed FSD or EAP to auto lane change on motorway eg M1, M4, not london North Circular, A1 etc. Also autopilot customised options have only two functions available rather than 4 options. Is it correct?

Lane change works on some stretches of A road dual carriageways too. I’ve used it on the A47 and A11
off ramp turns also work on NoA on those stretches

 

[MrBadger]

Thanks, so current UK Autopilot rule only allowed FSD or EAP to auto lane change on motorway eg M1, M4, not london North Circular, A1 etc.

As Dilly says but worth reiterating the difference between confirmed and unconfirmed auto lane change. In the US, and a few other regions, there is the option for the car to do unconfirmed auto lance changes, ie, the driver does not have to confirm that the lane change is acceptable by hitting the indicator stalk. On other regions, ie UK, the option for unconfirmed lane changes is not there. All lane changes need to be confirmed by the driver by hitting the indicator stalk. The car can still recommend a lane change, but it still needs to be confirmed by the driver. This is the same in US etc when the unconfirmed option is disabled. The only time in the UK when the car will make a 'lane change' without driver confirmation is wen exiting onto an offramp.

The above only applies to cars fitted with FSD or EAP. Unconfirmed and confirmed also have no bearing on 'the nag'. Either way, the car will only perform an auto lane change, confirmed or otherwise, if it can detect that your hands are appropriately on the wheel. If it does not detect that it point of lane change, it will wait until it does - the car may then nag the driver to put hands on the wheel, but sometimes its not obvious and results in an aborted lane change as it times out.

 

[Dilly]

As Dilly says but worth reiterating the difference between confirmed and unconfirmed auto lane change. In the US, and a few other regions, there is the option for the car to do unconfirmed auto lance changes, ie, the driver does not have to confirm that the lane change is acceptable by hitting the indicator stalk. On other regions, ie UK, the option for unconfirmed lane changes is not there. All lane changes need to be confirmed by the driver by hitting the indicator stalk. The car can still recommend a lane change, but it still needs to be confirmed by the driver. This is the same in US etc when the unconfirmed option is disabled. The only time in the UK when the car will make a 'lane change' without driver confirmation is wen exiting onto an offramp.

The above only applies to cars fitted with FSD or EAP. Unconfirmed and confirmed also have no bearing on 'the nag'. Either way, the car will only perform an auto lane change, confirmed or otherwise, if it can detect that your hands are appropriately on the wheel. If it does not detect that it point of lane change, it will wait until it does - the car may then nag the driver to put hands on the wheel, but sometimes its not obvious and results in an aborted lane change as it times out.

Spot on.
it’s also quite odd but presumably a mapping issue, that there are certain stretches of DC, even quite short ones, where lane change simply isn’t available, when stretches either end are. I even found one long stretch where it worked going east but on the return journey going west, it wasn’t available.

 

[SJ_angeleyes21]

As Dilly says but worth reiterating the difference between confirmed and unconfirmed auto lane change. In the US, and a few other regions, there is the option for the car to do unconfirmed auto lance changes, ie, the driver does not have to confirm that the lane change is acceptable by hitting the indicator stalk. On other regions, ie UK, the option for unconfirmed lane changes is not there. All lane changes need to be confirmed by the driver by hitting the indicator stalk. The car can still recommend a lane change, but it still needs to be confirmed by the driver. This is the same in US etc when the unconfirmed option is disabled. The only time in the UK when the car will make a 'lane change' without driver confirmation is wen exiting onto an offramp.

The above only applies to cars fitted with FSD or EAP. Unconfirmed and confirmed also have no bearing on 'the nag'. Either way, the car will only perform an auto lane change, confirmed or otherwise, if it can detect that your hands are appropriately on the wheel. If it does not detect that it point of lane change, it will wait until it does - the car may then nag the driver to put hands on the wheel, but sometimes its not obvious and results in an aborted lane change as it times out.

Thank you so much for the explanations. My MS75D(EAP) is looking for FSD upgrade, as experienced owner, what would you recommend me to do so? Much appreciate if you give me some tips. Thanks

 

[Irata]

Different people on different journeys in different situations are going to have different experiences.

At the moment the features are only driver assistance. I worry that there is too much of a blur between assistance and the perception of self drive.

I think a more blended experience between driving and automation will help, because at the moment we don't have full self drive. I am not a fan of acknowledging the computer with a click, I'd rather drive/steer to assist it.

 

[GRiLLA]

Hi GRiLLA,
Thanks, so current UK Autopilot rule only allowed FSD or EAP to auto lane change on motorway eg M1, M4, not london North Circular, A1 etc. Also autopilot customised options have only two functions available rather than 4 options. Is it correct?

No, lane change when you indicate is available in the UK, and Navigate on Autopilot will suggest changes that you will need to confirm. It can take junctions fully automatically as well, but frankly it's pretty terrifying bad at it. People seem to be saying there are some limitations on certain roads, that's not something I've seen personally, NoA is limited but I've not had lane change not work.

I'm referring to no-confirmation lane change, that's not available in the UK currently.

 

[Neilman]

Question: When using NoA, and a lane change is being offered, is there a way to dismiss the "change lane" message if you've no intention of taking it up?
For example you've overtaken somebody but there's another vehicle not too far away and NoA is suggesting you return to the "slow" lane when it hasn't seen upcoming traffic itself.
So far I've just been ignoring the message and it eventually, seems for a long time, goes away by itself.

 

[Dilly]

Question: When using NoA, and a lane change is being offered, is there a way to dismiss the "change lane" message if you've no intention of taking it up?
For example you've overtaken somebody but there's another vehicle not too far away and NoA is suggesting you return to the "slow" lane when it hasn't seen upcoming traffic itself.
So far I've just been ignoring the message and it eventually, seems for a long time, goes away by itself.

That’s what I do. I don’t think you can just dismiss it. Just ignore it as you’re doing

 

[Cardo]

Question: When using NoA, and a lane change is being offered, is there a way to dismiss the "change lane" message if you've no intention of taking it up?
For example you've overtaken somebody but there's another vehicle not too far away and NoA is suggesting you return to the "slow" lane when it hasn't seen upcoming traffic itself.
So far I've just been ignoring the message and it eventually, seems for a long time, goes away by itself.

It comes up on the screen, above the directions/ NoA label. A “Cancel lane change” button (or something akin to this) comes up. Press this and it gives up trying to change lane. Though that doesn’t mean it doesn’t come up with the suggestion again 30s later!

 

[Peteski]

I disagree. I think FSD does it exactly right.

Quick lange changes are dangerous. I admit that in theory lane changes could be done quicker if we can rely on FSD to watch in all directions with 100% reliability. But at least in Germany it cannot because of the high permitted speeds. What happens is that you drive at the recommended speed of 130 km/h, but another car approaches from behind at twice the speed. If the autopilot/FSD cameras miss that other car, you want the lane change be done very gently to leave time for the other car to brake and alert you of your mistake or perhaps to change lanes to avoid a collision.

They can't be that dangerous, I've been driving for 36 years with zero accidents (probably kiss of death there!).

Whatever you say, FSD lane changes seem painfully slow. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to step in and over-ride them, either to get out of somebody's way coming up fast behind or when overtaking in traffic to avoid getting boxed in.

I can understand FSD being cautious when pulling out into the fast lane, but that then becomes a bit of a problem when you later need to pull back into the inside lane when another car comes steaming up from behind. They expect you to get out of the way pretty sharpish, but FSD drags its feet more than enough to make them think you are deliberately hogging the lane. Signal, give the wheel a little tug, pause, then sloooooooowly drift across into the next lane. Plus there's always a fair chance (IME maybe odds of about 20/1) it might suddenly abort at any point in the manoeuvre and snap violently back into the original lane - now THAT is what I call dangerous!

 

[Louis0w]

They can't be that dangerous, I've been driving for 36 years with zero accidents (probably kiss of death there!).

Whatever you say, FSD lane changes seem painfully slow. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to step in and over-ride them, either to get out of somebody's way coming up fast behind or when overtaking in traffic to avoid getting boxed in.

I can understand FSD being cautious when pulling out into the fast lane, but that then becomes a bit of a problem when you later need to pull back into the inside lane when another car comes steaming up from behind. They expect you to get out of the way pretty sharpish, but FSD drags its feet more than enough to make them think you are deliberately hogging the lane. Signal, give the wheel a little tug, pause, then sloooooooowly drift across into the next lane. Plus there's always a fair chance (IME maybe odds of about 20/1) it might suddenly abort at any point in the manoeuvre and snap violently back into the original lane - now THAT is what I call dangerous!

For context, it shouldn't be forgotten that Teslas AP/FSD functionality is being significantly nerfed by the UNECE rules, in those countries where the rules are being applied. The timing and application process of the AP auto lane change is prescribed within UNECE R79.