Auto-Pilot - I give up, it's downright lethal

[JupiterMan]

In US it is described as being for Highway use only, which would be Motorway and not Dual Carriageways in a direct comparison

in UK lane changing and NOA works on motorways and *some* dual carriageways... but there is no logic to where it does or does not work that I can see - and certainly nothing to tell the driver that the road is supported or not.

 

[Nick77]

I've only ever had phantom braking happen twice.l in a month of ownership. Both on TAACC, not Autopilot.

Both were cars waiting to turn onto the road I was on. Neither were on highways/carriage/motorway, which its not designed for.

 

[hgmichna]

In the short period I have own the M3 I have learn to live with phantom braking. But I Recently left my drive and experienced what I can only describe as phantom accerelation and slammed on brakes. My road is less than 50m long and was doing 10mph or less. Not happened again since but has left me paranoid

You probably inadvertently activated TACC, which will accelerate to 10 mph, or Autopilot, which may, depending on settings and way of activation, accelerate to higher speeds.

 

[Battpower]

I think it comes down to the systems should only allow engagement in situations when they can deliver an acceptable and supported functionality.

If the reality is that certain functions have been developed and refined based on certain road layouts / conventions, then that should be clearly stated.

I know first hand that AP / TACC does not (pre vision only) deal well with stationary objects on the carriageway. I also know that certain repeatable and not obscure scenarios gave rise to sudden slowing / braking that can be quite extreme.

I am not aware of specific guidance from Tesla regarding what the causes and effects are. Clearly some issues exist because Tesla are looking at vision only based at least partly on radar performance. But I don't want a list of scenarios. I just want systems that work consistently as intended and expected.

 

[pgkevet]

You probably inadvertently activated TACC, which will accelerate to 10 mph, or Autopilot, which may, depending on settings and way of activation, accelerate to higher speeds.

Claims of sudden acceleration have lead to class action suits but:
Tesla’s sudden accelerations were user error, US government says

 

[Dooo]

You probably inadvertently activated TACC, which will accelerate to 10 mph, or Autopilot, which may, depending on settings and way of activation, accelerate to higher speeds.

Its a possibility. I braked before looking at screen. But should it engage at such low speed considering I just got off my drive?

 

[Mrklaw]

if you set your TACC to engage at 'current speed' in the options (which I have and is what I'm used to) - does it still accelerate to 10mph minimum?

 

[DrJFoster]

I think it comes down to the systems should only allow engagement in situations when they can deliver an acceptable and supported functionality.

If the reality is that certain functions have been developed and refined based on certain road layouts / conventions, then that should be clearly stated.

I know first hand that AP / TACC does not (pre vision only) deal well with stationary objects on the carriageway. I also know that certain repeatable and not obscure scenarios gave rise to sudden slowing / braking that can be quite extreme.

I am not aware of specific guidance from Tesla regarding what the causes and effects are. Clearly some issues exist because Tesla are looking at vision only based at least partly on radar performance. But I don't want a list of scenarios. I just want systems that work consistently as intended and expected.

Absolutely - I don't understand why they think its ok to put in the user manual not to use something in certain conditions (city driving) and then not prohibit it in the car. I'm generally not a supporter of the nanny state, but if they're serious about these cars being the safest, it seems like a fairly easy win.

 

[hgmichna]

In my experience it is OK. It means that, if you engage Autopilot outside of recommended conditions, you need to be extra careful.

Works fine for me. TACC and Automatic Emergency Braking have already prevented or ameliorated a few possible accidents in my case.

Sure, the car brakes where I would not have braked, but it has always done so in a safe manner.

 

[pkitch]

In my case at least, some of the behaviour I'm describing is without AP or any other driver aid intentionally activated.

Regarding acceptable / intended roads for use of AP, that is in itself problematic in my (UK) experience. Roads like what was the M10 near St. Albans is no longer classed as a motorway, though in every respect it is a suitable road for full Auto Pilot. The A1(M) / A1 switches from motorway to non motorway and AP / Speed recognition doesn't always follow as it should. Since the car doesn't state what class of road it thinks it is on at a given time, it's hard to know when AP can be engaged in strict accordance with Tesla's requirements.

Also, since there are no traffic lights on motorways, what's the point of stopping at traffic lights etc if you can't actually use it due to road classification?

Yes good points. I imagine their development is US centric either intentionally or in relation to the volume of user data and UK roads generally are far more complex overall, hoping we see some serious improvements soon, the latest FSD Beta videos give me some hope.

 

[pkitch]

in UK lane changing and NOA works on motorways and *some* dual carriageways... but there is no logic to where it does or does not work that I can see - and certainly nothing to tell the driver that the road is supported or not.

Right, similar here in US, AP works on most roads, but can be very erratic. Somewhat understandable in that Tesla state for Highways only, but then why does it work on non Highways...

 

[Teddy69]

Right, similar here in US, AP works on most roads, but can be very erratic. Somewhat understandable in that Tesla state for Highways only, but then why does it work on non Highways...

Highways aren't a think in the UK

If you look at the latest dual carriage ways, i.e. the Aberdeen bypass it's built to motor way standards, no tractors coming out of a field. If you then look at the Aberdeen to Dundee dual carriage way built in the 70's & 80's it's got all manner of risks, traffic crossing that don't exist in more modern roads.

So not just as simple as saying motor ways good/dual carriage ways bad.

And anyways, my BMW can happily do 100 miles from Inverness to Aberdeen on mostly single A roads without a problem on ACC.

It's highly disingenuous to claim that a tesla is somehow smarter or going to be smarter, or going to be self driving and so on when it can't simply match the performance of it's "dumb" competitors which have been doing this stuff for several years.

Like I said previously my wife went from "can't wait to get a tesla" to "This thing beeps all the time, slams me in the seat belt as passenger and is scary" in just 2 weeks. She won't drive it now...

Even in fully manual mode this car has issues with traffic in it's own lane, the classic is when you have a traffic island with a car parked legally just beyond, the car craps it every time.

Hopefully things will improve but in the meantime is it such a bad thing that UK buyers are fully aware that this car has panic attacks in normal driving that no other car (as far as I am aware) has?

 

[imstitch]

Like I said previously my wife went from "can't wait to get a tesla" to "This thing beeps all the time, slams me in the seat belt as passenger and is scary" in just 2 weeks. She won't drive it now...

Even in fully manual mode this car has issues with traffic in it's own lane, the classic is when you have a traffic island with a car parked legally just beyond, the car craps it every time.

Hopefully things will improve but in the meantime is it such a bad thing that UK buyers are fully aware that this car has panic attacks in normal driving that no other car (as far as I am aware) has?

The problem is between the seat and the steering wheel.

 

[linux-works]

I don’t like to break bad news but it ain't ever going to fly

with sufficient thrust even pigs can fly.

 

[Drew57]

Without wishing to minimise genuine concerns of others on this thread, I think part of the issue here is expectation based on the ridiculous hype that Tesla and Musk himself put out. Like most things, car ownership involves compromises rather than perfection & on that basis the great things about a Tesla currently outweigh the bad for me.

I get what people are saying but honestly, in 10,000+ miles of ownership & most of that driving manually I do get infrequent beeps or gentle nudges at the wheel, occasional klaxons & warnings but only when a situation obviously called for it.

My wife has never used AP/TACC and absolutely loves the car, I just asked her if she's ever experienced any warning sounds etc and her answer was an emphatic 'no'

 

[Nick77]

I do wish I could turn off those annoying warning beeps every time someone turns left in front of me.

 

[Mrklaw]

also worth considering is the context of other cars. Traffic safety is being baked into more and more cars as part of EU regs but may be new to many of us. You may not find them exactly the same, but eg my wife’s polo beeps at her now and then when it considers the car in front might be an obstacle to avoid. So at least some of the frustrations people have with the ‘bong happy’ Tesla may partly be also an issue on many other modern cars

 

[RazorCH3]

I do wish I could turn off those annoying warning beeps every time someone turns left in front of me.

I don’t have a car yet to test, but does it alter the distance you get the warning chime at if you change any of the TACC settings for following cars etc? There’s a setting for early normal or late warning isn’t there?

 

[RazorCH3]

also worth considering is the context of other cars. Traffic safety is being baked into more and more cars as part of EU regs but may be new to many of us. You may not find them exactly the same, but eg my wife’s polo beeps at her now and then when it considers the car in front might be an obstacle to avoid. So at least some of the frustrations people have with the ‘bong happy’ Tesla may partly be also an issue on many other modern cars

Also how different people drive… My partners Volvo XC60 regularly ‘warns’ her she’s too close to car/barrier/pedestrian yet I’ve never had one beep from it.

 

[pdk42]

also worth considering is the context of other cars. Traffic safety is being baked into more and more cars as part of EU regs but may be new to many of us. You may not find them exactly the same, but eg my wife’s polo beeps at her now and then when it considers the car in front might be an obstacle to avoid. So at least some of the frustrations people have with the ‘bong happy’ Tesla may partly be also an issue on many other modern cars

The regs are not EU, they’re UNECE - global.