Auto Wipers are awful

[Dilly]

I thought I’d throw another variable into the discussion.
where I live in Norfolk, air quality is pretty fair. Where I used to live in Watford, stretches of the M25 and some of the other busy A roads, the air is now positively blue with car fumes and particulates. Throw some rain at those particulates and inevitably my rain is ‘cleaner’ than their rain.
Whilst completely unqualified to know what effect that may have upon cameras, I would guess that there is some effect and it will differ all over the country.
Just a thought…

 

[pgkevet]

My guess is the truth is very personal. One person might get a phantom brake where they lost a few mph and think they are in mortal danger while others might just find it a little annoying. My wife doesn’t care for the late braking but she trusts me to monitor the car, while I totally understand someone not feeling comfortable in the exact same situation.

For new drivers who haven't read forums or been warned.... well the first time my S slammed on the brakes (for no reason) on a busy section of the M6 round B'ham and white van man who had been 2 lengths behind was fishtailing all over the place trying to avoid hitting me..
After the second time it happens one becomes very cautious about ever using automation when other vehicles are anywhere near.
Perhaps you have yet to experience a 'real one'...
Many moons ago I was involved in an M1 pile-up. I stopped just short of the guy in front and watched helplessly in my rearview mirror as 6 cars slammed into us. All I could do was take my foot off the brake to reduce the shock as we got shoved into the guy I'd avoided. It's going to happen to a Tesla soon.

 

[AnthonyLR]

It’s not only the wiping a dry screen, it’s the frantic wiping (sometimes) in light rain, the (sometimes) occasional wipe when there is horrific rain. It just doesn’t work (all the time) as most people expect.

That's not my experience. They appear to work pretty well when it is actually raining (after more recent updates)

 

[Pagemakers]

That’s probably the thing with NN. The is no definite on and off. It’s all happening with learned experiences.

I’m sure if we all sat in each other’s cars for a long raining drive some would say that’s fine and some would say it’s crap.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The model S used to have the traditional rain sensor, the really daft thing is they could have left it there and trained the cameras using that (I doubt they did this previously because automatic wipers took nearly a year to appear after they changed hardware to the Tesla cameras giving them the ability to train the model). I do get the logic of cameras, the car needs to know the conditions of the road, weather, visibility, etc to make decisions when self driving or even just using TACC (eg wet road, leave a little more distance would be a responsible driver action ) but the execution is terrible and the benefits don’t seem to have appeared yet.

 

[Peter 224]

A few cars back I had a Mercedes CLK with wipers that would come on for no obvious reason. Mercedes told me that it was caused by shadows from overhanging trees.... a particularly English problem, it seems. But it can also be caused by rapid changes in light level. They adjusted the sensitivity of the sensor and the problem went away. If Mercedes can do this why cannot Tesla?

 

[Somex]

The model S used to have the traditional rain sensor, the really daft thing is they could have left it there and trained the cameras using that (I doubt they did this previously because automatic wipers took nearly a year to appear after they changed hardware to the Tesla cameras giving them the ability to train the model). I do get the logic of cameras, the car needs to know the conditions of the road, weather, visibility, etc to make decisions when self driving or even just using TACC (eg wet road, leave a little more distance would be a responsible driver action ) but the execution is terrible and the benefits don’t seem to have appeared yet.

A bit simplistic but all I really need it to know (and respond to) is:-
A) is it raining/is the screen wet, if so=turn wipers on or off
B) how much is it raining/how wet is screen/what speed am I going=Adjust speed of wipers

 

[Somex]

A few cars back I had a Mercedes CLK with wipers that would come on for no obvious reason. Mercedes told me that it was caused by shadows from overhanging trees.... a particularly English problem, it seems. But it can also be caused by rapid changes in light level. They adjusted the sensitivity of the sensor and the problem went away. If Mercedes can do this why cannot Tesla?

Good question!

 

[DarkNightP3D]

It's really weird this. How can people's experience with the same car vary so much? I've had my Model 3 Performance since last September and have never once had an issue with the wipers. Admittedly, because of lockdown, I haven't driven it that my much, but I have driven it in varying intensities of rain and, obviously, in the dry. Never a problem. Very strange.

You are one of the lucky few, or you don't mind the wipers going at max speed in all conditions. That's a pet peeve of mine. Can't stand when it's barely raining and the wipers are going at full tilt.

 

[Adopado]

That’s probably the thing with NN. The is no definite on and off. It’s all happening with learned experiences.

I’m sure if we all sat in each other’s cars for a long raining drive some would say that’s fine and some would say it’s crap.

Though there may be differences between different peoples expectations I really don’t see this as the main explanation. My wipers simply don’t wipe the screen unless it’s raining, others apparently do wipe a bone dry screen. That’s easy to spot!

 

[Pagemakers]

Though there may be differences between different peoples expectations I really don’t see this as the main explanation. My wipers simply don’t wipe the screen unless it’s raining, others apparently do wipe a bone dry screen. That’s easy to spot!

Mine don’t really wipe on a dry screen but the wipers are illogical and almost never appropriate for the conditions.

 

[Adopado]

Mine don’t really wipe on a dry screen but the wipers are illogical and almost never appropriate for the conditions.

For quite a while mine have been appropriate for the conditions. i.e. they are on when it's raining ... they are intermittent when it's "off and on" or spitting. They don't run at excessive speed unless in a deluge. Thy don't wipe a dry screen. Having to press the button for a wipe is an infrequent requirement. 2 people assessing the wipers performance are highly likely to come to the same conclusion ... yet this appears to be very different to what some other people describe. I agree that a sensitivity control would be a useful additional feature and maybe this would sort the "edge cases" and personal differences.

 

[Somex]

For quite a while mine have been appropriate for the conditions. i.e. they are on when it's raining ... they are intermittent when it's "off and on" or spitting. They don't run at excessive speed unless in a deluge. Thy don't wipe a dry screen. Having to press the button for a wipe is an infrequent requirement. 2 people assessing the wipers performance are highly likely to come to the same conclusion ... yet this appears to be very different to what some other people describe. I agree that a sensitivity control would be a useful additional feature and maybe this would sort the "edge cases" and personal differences.

There is a sensitivity control of sorts I guess, it’s the slider where you can control ( should be able to control!) the wipe speed/frequency of wipes. I can only speak about my experience and that is that wipers wipe when they shouldn’t and don’t wipe when they should, not all the time to be accurate, but AFAIAC it shouldn’t happen at all. If it were predictable then a sensitivity control could be adjusted to suit drivers preference. A sensitivity control would not alter their random behaviour, I want that addressed first, and then an easily adjusted means of altering the frequency of wipe if it’s required.

 

[Somex]

Day 2, this time a cloudy day and they are still wiping a dry screen like they are possessed by a demented windscreen Djinn. I've just done a full reboot to see if that helps.

If you kicked them with both boots (full reboot) it should have some effect, maybe not the one you hoped for though

 

[Yachtsman]

@DW4WFT
really weird this. How can people's experience with the same car vary so much? I've had my Model 3 Performance since last September and have never once had an issue with the wipers. Admittedly, because of lockdown, I haven't driven it that my much, but I have driven it in varying intensities of rain and, obviously, in the dry. Never a problem. Very strange.

September 2020 must have been a good month for m3 wipers, my experience is the same as yours.

 

[Somex]

@DW4WFT
really weird this. How can people's experience with the same car vary so much? I've had my Model 3 Performance since last September and have never once had an issue with the wipers. Admittedly, because of lockdown, I haven't driven it that my much, but I have driven it in varying intensities of rain and, obviously, in the dry. Never a problem. Very strange.

September 2020 must have been a good month for m3 wipers, my experience is the same as yours.

Agreed it does seem strange that so many of us report widely varying experiences.
There must be something that accounts for the reasons some of us have problems.
Thre must also be a reason some of us have no problems.
I would dearly like to have a solution and not have any such issues.
It’s no fun to be driving along in the dry and suddenly have your wipers start wiping a dry screen

 

[Dunstan]

Agreed it does seem strange that so many of us report widely varying experiences.
There must be something that accounts for the reasons some of us have problems.
Thre must also be a reason some of us have no problems.
I would dearly like to have a solution and not have any such issues.
It’s no fun to be driving along in the dry and suddenly have your wipers start wiping a dry screen

This doesn't surprise me at all. I would expect that Tesla are varying calibration factors between individuals and using reports to tune them. And I further expect that they use bug reports to train the models. Certainly I plan to bug report every instance of phantom braking and wiper misbehaviour and any other NN faulty inferences.

 

[Artiste]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I would expect that Tesla are varying calibration factors between individuals and using reports to tune them. And I further expect that they use bug reports to train the models. Certainly I plan to bug report every instance of phantom braking and wiper misbehaviour and any other NN faulty inferences.

Oh my, you’re going to be busy!!

 

[Adopado]

Agreed it does seem strange that so many of us report widely varying experiences.
There must be something that accounts for the reasons some of us have problems.
Thre must also be a reason some of us have no problems.
I would dearly like to have a solution and not have any such issues.
It’s no fun to be driving along in the dry and suddenly have your wipers start wiping a dry screen

I am delighted to announce that I (well my wife actually) have finally joined the dry screen wiper club! She drove the car today and reported constant wiping such that she (quite rightly) turned them to "off"... problem temporarily solved (sort of)!

Here's my take on what may have happened in this instance ... and a solution. The car had been parked near a sycamore tree which at this time of the year is exuding a sticky sap. Over a couple of days the weather was warm and dry and the car hadn't been moved therefore allowing the sap spots to become hardened. If I looked at just the right angle I could see really tiny spots all over the windscreen. Despite the repeated dry wiping attempts and then a subsequent use of the washers these marks were still there. It's important to say that these "baked on" marks from sap and from flies were actually not at all noticeable when looking straight through the screen from the driver's seat so no attempt had been made to clean the screen at the beginning of the journey. I wondered if these marks would be enough to trigger the cameras that monitor rain spots on the screen? I therefore thoroughly cleaned the windscreen with a plastic sponge/scrub pad and my normal car washing shampoo. I also cleaned the wiper blades. On a subsequent drive with the wipers back on auto there were zero incidents of dry screen wiping in varying light conditions and driving speeds and directions in relation to the sun.

Of course the "cure" may be a coincidence but I will keep any eye on things. Fingers crossed. If this was/is the cause then it's not a vote of confidence in the cameras' ability to assess rain spots vs screen marks!

[Unfortunately I realise I've made an error that will muddy my future assessment ... I did a 2 button and brake reboot on the off chance that there was a software glitch. I now won't be sure if it was the reboot or the screen cleaning that made the difference! Did I read of someone else fruitlessly trying a reboot? Maybe that one has already been ruled out?]

 

[Alic01]

Pressing the end of the stalk for wipers is straight from the Merc parts bin. All they have done is swap the rotary dial on the stalk for a pop up on the screen.

I have had dry wipes and erratic behaviour in my GLC but other to that occasional issue it was pretty well behaved, biggest issue i had with that car was in winter you couldn’t keep the screen clear enough to keep the sensor clear.

Even worse was in summer our drive is slightly uphill and faces straight at the rising sun which often resulted in total auto lights failure until a complete power down and restart.