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Autonomous Car Progress

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Typically you would have stricter requirements on the DMS when you allow hands off (see Ford and GM for example). Unless you want to be charged with manslaughter, please watch the road (ie perform the OEDR).
That's because the system isn't trusted, yet.

Tesla is light years beyond Ford in recognizing objects and situations and why there is technically less scrutiny from the car. I couldn't even glance beside me with Blue Cruise. I can change music, look in the back seat, etc. in my Tesla with Beta on without touching the wheel and not get nags. I'm saying there's a chance that's improved more, closer to level 3, but not full level 3, which Mercedes is doing in the US.
 
Trusted by whom? If the manufacturer isn't putting is in writing that it's safe, then the customer probably shouldn't trust it with their family's lives. Full Self Driving (sometimes) (tm)?
By the manufacturer.

Tesla demands additional attention in more complex situations (City/Construction) and loosens in less complex (highway).

Blue Cruise is so strict because it's new and there's less development into it. It isn't available everywhere, it wouldn't take sharp curves until pretty recently, and soon they will add lane change...as they develop it things like obstacle avoidance will be added and potentially it won't be as strict, but it's still in much earlier stages of development.
 
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By the manufacturer.
Great.
Tesla demands additional attention in more complex situations (City/Construction) and loosens in less complex (highway).
Blue Cruise is so strict because it's new and there's less development into it. It isn't available everywhere, it wouldn't take sharp curves until pretty recently, and soon they will add lane change...as they develop it, but it's still in much earlier stages of development.
Gotcha. Another point of view would be that Tesla doesn't care if you watch the road that well. They hardly have a DMS worth its name. The camera placement and lens sucks for DMS and it lacks IR. Goes hand in hand with the rest of their tone of voice and markering ;)

I think we mostly agree though.
 
Great.

Gotcha. Another point of view would be that Tesla doesn't care if you watch the road that well. They hardly have a DMS worth its name. The camera placement and lens sucks for DMS and it lacks IR. Goes hand in hand with the rest of their tone of voice and markering ;)

I think we mostly agree though.
Mine has IR, but the monitoring has gotten a lot better and more strict in some areas while loosening in others. In City Streets, especially with people and heavy traffic, it knows exactly where I'm looking and for how long and lets me know. In general the highway is just less complex, so there's less scrutiny.
 
When Tesla takes on manufacturer liability for the system, we have L3+.
I think it will work such that liability will slowly transfer from owner to insurance, and insurance will adjust according to whether the owner is driving manually or by using the autonomy features. If you're letting autonomy drive and there's an incident, then there's no strike against you on your policy. If you're driving, then the incident will affect your policy. I assume that this is one reason that Tesla got into the insurance game. "Legacy insurance" just won't quickly embrace this kind of thinking.
 
I'm just going to put this out there for the lively discussion: FSD Beta (Autosteer on City Streets) is an early access program for people to assist in developing and refining the feature. It's not officially released.

There is no need to gesticulate wildly and make statements about your family's safety or "for the children". If the early access program is causing you stress, and you fear for safety, then it's not meant for you and you should disable it or request removal from the program.

Let others test, train, and help refine the system so that you can benefit from the end result when it is released (ie: no longer "Coming Soon").
 
I'm just going to put this out there for the lively discussion: FSD Beta (Autosteer on City Streets) is an early access program for people to assist in developing and refining the feature. It's not officially released.

There is no need to gesticulate wildly and make statements about your family's safety or "for the children". If the early access program is causing you stress, and you fear for safety, then it's not meant for you and you should disable it or request removal from the program.

Let others test, train, and help refine the system so that you can benefit from the end result when it is released (ie: no longer "Coming Soon").
I'd be in agreement with that if Tesla had some skin in the game. As it is it's a pig in a poke with no criteria to say FSDj is meeting min performance goals. So far it's crowd sourced vaporware. Caveat emptor to those thinking about buying it outwrite.
 
I'd be in agreement with that if Tesla had some skin in the game. As it is it's a pig in a poke with no criteria to say FSDj is meeting min performance goals. So far it's crowd sourced vaporware. Caveat emptor to those thinking about buying it outwrite.
FSD + Human has better accident rate than just human. Looks like a good perf goal that is being met.
 
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FSD + Human has better accident rate than just human. Looks like a good perf goal that is being met.
That's a nice thought, but not a fact. Right now FSDb is too "interesting" (ie bad). If it improved 10x it would still be 100x less safe than human on its own, and the human monitoring would be over-trusting it. Dozing off while on L2 is not "safer", it's automation complacency.

From 8 years ago: How a driverless car sees the road (02:40 and onwards - anecdote from 10 years ago). Before that, same conclusions from aerospace, from 20 years back.
 
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That's because the system isn't trusted, yet.

Tesla is light years beyond Ford in recognizing objects and situations and why there is technically less scrutiny from the car. I couldn't even glance beside me with Blue Cruise. I can change music, look in the back seat, etc. in my Tesla with Beta on without touching the wheel and not get nags. I'm saying there's a chance that's improved more, closer to level 3, but not full level 3, which Mercedes is doing in the US.
Does Tesla's eye tracking even work at night or through sunglasses? I recall seeing a video that made it seem like it didn't.

It seems that Tesla doesn't nag because their eye tracking is worse, not because their self driving is better.
 
Does Tesla's eye tracking even work at night or through sunglasses?
Answer for sunglasses is definitely no. I can look at the screen all I want with my polarized sunglasses on and AutoPilot doesn’t say boo. But pull my sunglasses off for a moment to look at some details (while on AutoPilot of course) and I almost immediately get the “Pay Attention” nag.
 
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First, can we get a source on this number or did you just make it up? Secondly, there are no "remote operator interventions". The car sometimes asks for a human to weigh in if it's unsure. This is for safety reasons. It doesn't need a human from stopping it from running into things or breaking the law. All this is top class safety engineering.
The one delusional here is obviously you.

Waymo/Cruise are so unsafe no way SanFrancisco would allow them to run if they had not paid off CA regulators to prevent proper oversight by SF.
 
I was wrong. It was every 5-10 miles:
Now, this is a two year old video, so Cruise has improved quite a bit since this was shot, but they still get stuck ALOT. But getting stuck is more impressive than needing a driver to intervene no prevent an incident, and requires a whole different safety architecture tbh. Tesla and other L2:s requires a human to stop it from doing the wrong thing. L4:s sometimes require a human to help it navigate situations the system knows it cannot safely operate in.

I am by no means a Cruise bull. They too are years behind Waymo in reliability and functionality.
 
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Now, this is a two year old video, so Cruise has improved quite a bit since this was shot, but they still get stuck ALOT. But getting stuck is more impressive than needing a driver to intervene no prevent an incident, and requires a whole different safety architecture tbh. Tesla and other L2:s requires a human to stop it from doing the wrong thing. L4:s sometimes require a human to help it navigate situations the system knows it cannot safely operate in.

I am by no means a Cruise bull. They too are years behind Waymo in reliability and functionality.

The context of this discussion is whether FSDb can get to L4 with the current sensor suite. It's not about comparing Cruise vs Tesla right now.

Video is 2 years ago, and Cruise confirmed L4 around 1.5 yrs ago.

As for remote assistance, that has nothing to do with the sensor suite. Tesla can add something like that as well.