Autopilot and v7 coming this Thursday! (15-10-15)

[Cyclone]

I was referring to the same meter that mspohr was -- the widget. Press the scroller on the steering wheel to choose a different widget.

As for the power meter on the speedometer, that's not configurable AFAIK.

Gotcha. I read mspohr's post as talking about the power/regen meter surrounding the speedometer and the energy graph as an app. I got confused when you then said meter and see what you mean now. Thanks. If only it was configurable, perhaps they wouldn't have had to move it to a separate app in v7!

 

[Andyw2100]

Gotcha. I read mspohr's post as talking about the power/regen meter surrounding the speedometer and the energy graph as an app. I got confused when you then said meter and see what you mean now. Thanks. If only it was configurable, perhaps they wouldn't have had to move it to a separate app in v7!

I kind of understand Tesla needing the screen real estate that had been designated for the speedometer / power meter for the graphical representation for auto pilot. Fine. But if we're going to have to use one of our two user-definable locations to see real time power usage, how about giving us some real ability to do that? I'd prefer the current combination speedometer / power meter, in slightly smaller form so it fits in the side panel, over what Tesla has given us. At least make that an additional option. Yes, the speed would be redundant, but so what? I rather have extra information than too little information.

 

[Soolim]

Assertion: arclength(0,100)==arclength(100,200)==arclength(200,400)
Conclusion: exponential
Incorrect, this is not exponential.

For exponential you'd want...

• AL(200,400) == AL(100,200) == AL(50,100) == AL(25,50)=...
• AL(100,200) == 2*[AL(50,100)+AL(25,50)+..]
• AL(100,200) > 2*[AL(50,100)+AL(25,50)+..]

Put more simply, for an exponential scale if the arc length for any two segments is identical then the numerical distance for those two segments must not be the same. As such, for (0,100] and (100,200) to be matched then we know it's not an exponential scale.

Imo, it is to log 2 scale, 0-100 is not shown in detail, therefore it is not comparable to (100 to 200). It appears to me that arc length of 100 to 200 and 200 to 400 are roughly equal without the benefit of tick marks. If 0 to 25, 25 to 50, and 50 to 100 were to be shown, the tick marks will compress on the higher values, but Tesla deemed it unnecessary. I focus my driving on the road, glance at the speedometer, power meter from time to time, but don't try to nailed it to 25.5 kW power draw:wink:

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Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

No you are not. I support the notion that it is logarithmic base 2 scale on power scale (+kW). If I am wrong, then that makes the two of us

 

[Max*]

Imo, it is to log 2 scale, 0-100 is not shown in detail, therefore it is not comparable to (100 to 200). It appears to me that arc length of 100 to 200 and 200 to 400 are roughly equal without the benefit of tick marks. If 0 to 25, 25 to 50, and 50 to 100 were to be shown, the tick marks will compress on the lower values, but Tesla deemed it unnecessary. I focus my driving on the road, glance at the speedometer, power meter from time to time, but don't try to nailed it to 25.5 kW power draw:wink:

I was thinking about it some more, and you can argue it both ways. But by a mathematical definition, Brianman has a point it's not exponential.

Without more tics -- we can speculate, but we don't know for sure.

I think they were going for an exponential graph that's easy to read for the non-math inclined. I think they were trying to model Accel = 50*2^x. We have tic marks for X = 1, 2 and 3. But for X = 0, it would have to be 50kw to be truly exponential. To approach 0kw, your X has to approach -infinity.

They did the same with the current Model S speedo (depending on car, it's either 15kw jumps or 20kw jumps). 0kw, 15kw, 30kw, 60kw, 120kw, 240kw. It's not exponential by the mathematical definition, but it is by... human conception, KWIM?

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No you are not. I support the notion that it is logarithmic base 2 scale on power scale (+kW). If I am wrong, then that makes the two of us

See above.

I think you mean exponential base-2. Logarithmic base 2 scale = = 1,1/2,1/4,1/8... Exponential = 1,2,4,8,...

 

[brianman]

@Max
I think they tried to "artsify" the bottom end of the scale for aesthetic reasons. The problem is that it breaks it as a device for measurement. In the existing UI, there are multiple notches (320, 160, 80, 40, 20, 0) and there are pairs of minor ticks -- which greatly mitigated the "corrupted scale" problem. In the UI we're discussing, they've minimized the number of notches (2 and 1 instead of the old 5 and 3) and gotten rid of the tick marks. So basically design has jumped the shark on screwing with the utility of the meter as a simulation of a measurement instrument.

<sarcasm>
While they're at it, they should just go "full minimal" with a single line of color that has a varying length depending on power consumption/regeneration in a single color with not tick marks or text at all. That would it would be "nearly fully useless".
</sarcasm>

For comparison:
http://cdn.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Tesla-Model-S-Dash-Energy.jpg

Sidenote: The speedometer on the 6.2 UI is a whole 'nother problem with scale -- and part of what I miss about "really old" firmware.

 

[green1]

<sarcasm>
While they're at it, they should just go "full minimal" with a single line of color that has a varying length depending on power consumption/regeneration in a single color with not tick marks or text at all. That would it would be "nearly fully useless".
</sarcasm>

Maybe instead of a line they could use leaves growing on a vine or some such

As much as I hate the idea of losing a side panel to display that info, I can sort of understand it. The one that REALLY irks me is the time and temperature, they take almost no space right now, but you're going to have to use 1/3 of your dash to see them in the new version? I just can't come up with any form of an excuse for that one.

 

[Dborn]

Well, it is Thursday morning in Australia, and no sign of an update yet!

 

[brianman]

As much as I hate the idea of losing a side panel to display that info, I can sort of understand it. The one that REALLY irks me is the time and temperature, they take almost no space right now, but you're going to have to use 1/3 of your dash to see them in the new version? I just can't come up with any form of an excuse for that one.

"Minimalism". Some designers would prefer it to just be a blank screen, if there's a screen at all.

 

[mspohr]

I want to make two points:
(1) If you don't use the meter, then turn it off. The ability to do so has been available in the firmware since 2012.
(2) For those that do use the meter, we have opinions about how to make it, well, most useful.

In simpler form, my initial reaction to your post could be summarized as "I don't understand why people are fussy about something I don't care about." That's a bit of a selfish and narrow perspective, so I presumed you didn't mean it as such and reread a few times before posting.

1. Yes, I have turned the graph off but I can't turn off the circular bars in the center (power/regen). I'm happy to see that these are gone in the new UI.

2. If you do use the meter, it looks like you can add it to the screen.
You have options.

I'm happy it's gone. It really cleans up the display.
If you want it, you can put it back in the new UI
Everybody happy now?

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"Minimalism". Some designers would prefer it to just be a blank screen, if there's a screen at all.

In engineering school, one of my professors told us that the perfect device would have no controls and no UI... it would just work.
This Tesla car device is fairly complicated so we do need some controls and some UI... glad to see that they are improving things... autopilot helps reduce complexity for the user and the new UI shows essential information.

There is, of course, a lot of complexity and data generated behind the screen. I think it should stay there. For those who are interested, they may want to expose some of it and there are things like VisibleTesla which gives you a lot more data with a nice presentation.

 

[HankLloydRight]

And at 55 seconds it looks like the color even changes to green for regen.

Man, if the took away the green regen, I'd just quit and do hara-kiri right now.

 

[Andyw2100]

Man, if the took away the green regen, I'd just quit and do hara-kiri right now.

If you had really been confidently counting on that you were more optimistic than I was, given everything else they were changing.

 

[Max*]

The twitter reporter said he'll be embargoed during the call, so no live tweets until after the call.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Man, if the took away the green regen, I'd just quit and do hara-kiri right now.

Man, I meant it as a joke (of course), but wow, there's some really good reading here: Seppuku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[brianman]

If you want it, you can put it back in the new UI
Everybody happy now?

No, I think you missed the point that the new meter is not as good as the old meter. Togglability is a different point entirely that you raised.

 

[yobigd20]

press kit out:

Model S Autopilot Press Kit | Tesla Motors

 

[brianman]

In engineering school, one of my professors told us that the perfect device would have no controls and no UI... it would just work..

Yah, that's one minimalist view. I don't happen to agree with it. I prefer not to be (completely) ruled by my devices. No controls means no control -- no thanks.

In this regard, I think this professor was an idiot for being so hyperbolic in his philosophy.

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Man, if the took away the green regen, I'd just quit and do hara-kiri right now.

That triggered a belly laugh. Thanks, sir!

 

[Max*]

press kit out:

Model S Autopilot Press Kit | Tesla Motors

So it has tics on the kw, time, temp and battery miles. All complaints addressed?

 

[lolachampcar]

"[FONT=HeiS ASC Simplified Chinese, HeiS ASC Simplified Chinese_n5, HelveticaNeue-Regular, Helvetica Neue Regular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica]Tesla requires drivers to remain engaged and aware when Autosteer is enabled. Drivers must keep their hands on the steering wheel."[/FONT]

[FONT=HeiS ASC Simplified Chinese, HeiS ASC Simplified Chinese_n5, HelveticaNeue-Regular, Helvetica Neue Regular, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica]That is driving in my world with the car wiggling the wheel annoyingly.

I think Tesla just made their release data for AP by not providing AP.[/FONT]

 

[Matias]

Tesla requires drivers to remain engaged and aware when Autosteer is enabled. Drivers must keep their hands on the steering wheel.

 

[ModelSFL]

press kit out:

Model S Autopilot Press Kit | Tesla Motors

Damn, looks like the auto steer will require the hands be on the wheel after all :-(

Interesting they are calling it beta still. Maybe that is how they limit the liability.