Yes the core issue here is that other people will hit you because of AP's bad driving. You can't expect other people to compensate for AP's "beta" behavior.
Sure. And it’ll be their fault all of those times. The fact that most people drive poorly doesn’t absolve anyone for driving poorly.
I see no reason not to blame the driver either. When you somehow drive your car into a still standing object in the road (the fire truck), then clearly a wrong judgement was made. Clearly the fire truck didn't move, so the blame is not there.
1. The driver should never drive faster than he can stop within half the distance he can see ahead. Clearly he couldn't stop for the fire truck.
2. And you obviously never change into a lane if you cannot confirm that the lane is clear ahead. Because then you violate rule 1, because you cannot stop if the traffic happens to stand still in the lane you switch to.
Clearly both of these rules were broken and could've been prevented. Blindly trusting the car to stop, or not interviene when it accellated. I'll not blame someone for something I don't know, but typing on a cell phone or distracted with other things usually cause these things...
Yeah those rules wane away quickly in a metropolitan like Istanbul where 17m people live. I'm sure the same goes for NYC or other metropolitans. If Autopilot makes a mistake I can anticipate and react to that is fine, that's why there's the beta tag. You are responsible as the driver and should never stop paying attention. However slamming on the brakes without any apparent reason or prior notice leaves you with virtually zero reaction time. I guess you just shouldn't use it in large cities in crowded roads. It just is too tempting to use in stop&go of large cities, especially when it works 99% of the time flawlessly. That false feeling of security is shattered so quickly with one little event. Technology is never perfect but self driving tech is the only one that needs perfection. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Yeah that’s the textbook response. I’m sure you drive by judgement and don’t always give adequate space for a full smash brakes stop by the guy ahead of you in an urban or even highway environment. Especially if you don’t see any other risk factors (ie the guy in front of you/the lane you’re entering being too close to the car ahead).
Wish I had the time to follow you around for a day to prove the point haha. Or maybe brake in front of you j/k...
Gotta level up the reaction time! LoLjk drive safe. I know I won't be riding any more Model S bumpers from now on.
SSonnentag
Rocket Scientist
My '17 100D threw up a ghost car for the first time yesterday. It only braked for a half second or so, but it was a sudden surprise as there was absolutely nothing in front of me, no cars or anything along the sides of the road, no oncoming traffic, no shadows, nothing at all I could identify as a cause.
That's the problem with Level 2 autonomous systems. The car maker gives no guarantee they actually work, so if your car gives out false positives there is nothing you can do about it.
But at least you won't have to pay for the damage, since the other car rear ended you.
But at least you won't have to pay for the damage, since the other car rear ended you.
NerdUno
Member
Once the injury lawyers figure out that Tesla's quirks are actually causing these accidents, the rear ended defense may become a thing of the past. It's called contributory negligence.
Ketchups
Member
Rear ended defense isn't much to begin with, all the other party has to do is claim "not at fault" (placing the blame on the driver in front) and the insurance companies go 50/50.
I've had the brakes come on in reaction to a car exiting the traveled right lane ahead of me (auto-follow set 4) and decelerate the car in order to, so-to-speak, avoid hitting the highway exiting car in the exit lane. If that car had stopped so would my car but in the adjoining lane. Still no reply from Tesla on the inquiry.
News to me. If someone inadvertently runs into my car from behind and claims it’s not their fault, I’ll be darn sure to make sure my insurance company doesn’t arbitrarily settle at 50%. That’s bad for everyone as far as rates go and I don’t want a partial fault incident on my driving record if it wasn’t my fault. No one should settle for that. I’d escalate and reach out to the state insurance regulatory agency first and my lawyer next.
This happens all the time.
I presume this is because the car does not "see" the exit lane as a separate lane until it is closer. This happens on surface roads as well. If you observe closely (assuming you are not driving), you will see that the car resumes normal speed as soon as it "sees" the new lane.
That is not true at all. I've been rear-ended a couple times(not in the S, thank god) and rear-ended someone else once. In none of those cases did the rear driver claiming the one in front was at fault make any difference. In at least one case, I know for a fact that the rear driver tried to claim I was at fault(he secretly voice recorded me while we talked and tried to probe me for something indicating I was at fault). Still 100% his.
Agreed. I’ve been involved in 2 rear endings and both times the driver had a lame ass excuse for why I deserved it, and zero times has that affected fault determination.
SSonnentag
Rocket Scientist
People almost universally follow too closely. I understand not liking to leave the necessary time/space cushion because other drivers will cut in and remove it, but the few seconds saved by tailgating are not worth the risk in my opinion. It's so much more relaxing to leave the additional space and just go with the flow of traffic. The left lane is overrated. And since when is the carpool lane considered the "drive 20 mph over the speed limit" lane? Just try driving the speed limit in the carpool lane and see how many friendly drivers you meet.
there are situations it cant register stationary objects though like the Model S that rear ended the fire truck while on auto pilot
I experience the phantom emergency braking this weekend. Showed a red car immediately ahead, take control now, and hard braking. Of course, not only was there not a car in front of me, but there were NO cars within 1000+ feet in ANY direction.
In addition, the breakage of following distance I experienced in a build from December, seems even worse now. A setting of "1" leaves such a huge gap in front of you, it encourages road rage - tailgaters and people passing you on the shoulder just to cut you off in the same lane.
This crap is just plain dangerous. The downward spiral of AP functionality to avoid bad press for Tesla. It's becoming unusable.
In addition, the breakage of following distance I experienced in a build from December, seems even worse now. A setting of "1" leaves such a huge gap in front of you, it encourages road rage - tailgaters and people passing you on the shoulder just to cut you off in the same lane.
This crap is just plain dangerous. The downward spiral of AP functionality to avoid bad press for Tesla. It's becoming unusable.
Similar occurrence to me today. On the highway at 75mph or so, AP2 engaged and suddenly the car hit the brakes VERY hard. Then a half second later, it returned to normal. No tones, no bells , no red cars in the display...nothing. Scared the piss out of me.
There was a truck ahead of me in an adjacent lane. He was maybe 4-5 car-lengths away. Straight portion of the road, no curves.
Totally forgot about doing a bug report. But if it happens again, I will...and will be calling the SvC.
There was a truck ahead of me in an adjacent lane. He was maybe 4-5 car-lengths away. Straight portion of the road, no curves.
Totally forgot about doing a bug report. But if it happens again, I will...and will be calling the SvC.
Last edited:
When this happens I try to email National Service promptly with the time it happened so they can look at the issue and adjust the software.
