Miousic
Member
For one moment, by reading some of you guys, I thought I was on my 13 years old son's forum on video games!!!
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
You guys are arguing semantics here, again (about that ONE word: several)?
Several is more than 2 but less than many, by definition (though some argue several is more than 1). Since we can't characterize many in this context, this is a pointless argument.
(What's many months? 3? 5? 15? 22? you can't say that after 12 months you start counting in years. Children's clothing is counted in months up to 24, does that mean that beyond 24 is many?)
Several is more than 2 but less than many, by definition (though some argue several is more than 1). Since we can't characterize many in this context, this is a pointless argument.
(What's many months? 3? 5? 15? 22? you can't say that after 12 months you start counting in years. Children's clothing is counted in months up to 24, does that mean that beyond 24 is many?)
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I can absolutely say that in typical, conversational English, when someone says "over the next several months" that is understood to be less than a year. This is not really open to debate. If the intent was for that time period to be a year or longer, the conversational English would be "over the next year" or "over the next several years."
You can say it's semantics, and that the argument is pointless, but I disagree. I took issue with the poster who earlier today said that few (although it really was several, but the point remains) could mean 12 or more, when it was referring to months. I'm sorry, but in context, in typical, conversational English, it just can't. Period.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
That's fine. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.
My only argument was with those suggesting that "few" and "several", as they relate to months, could not reasonably be taken as meaning more than 11. That's what I said in my first post on this, and that's really all I've been saying since.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Yes, I don't think any one thinks we were intentionally misled. I think if you had asked Elon Musk about this last October, he would have been willing to bet a lot of money that the autopilot functionality we're waiting for now would have been out long before this. I was just trying to counter the point that some were making that made it sound, based on the imprecision in words like "few" and "several", that Tesla's intent all along was to have it come out on a time frame like this. I think we can probably all agree that was never the plan. And I'm willing to believe that Tesla is working pretty darn hard to get it out now, but of course they also want it to be right, as we all do.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Here's where the confusion comes from. You are correct on your interpretation of the phrase "next several months" vs "several months". "next several" typically refers to a shorter period than "several" and is close to "a few" in meaning.
However, when they say "the features will be rolled out over the next several months" it refers to the features like TACC, blind spot warning, auto high beams etc using the the autopilot hardware, which were rolled out over a few months. I remember articles where Tesla PR used such phrasing and it was clear that was what they were referring too.
"This quarter, we started implementing the Model S active safety system in conjunction with the introduction of new Autopilot hardware, consisting of 12 ultrasonic sensors that sense up to 16 feet around the car, a forward-looking camera, a forward radar, and a digitally controlled, high-precision electric brake boost. We specifically selected this hardware to accommodate the progressive introduction of new safety features via software updates over the course of the next several months."
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/05/tesla-model-s-scores-euro-ncap-5-star-safety-score/
However, whenever they talk about the complete rollout of all features (including features like lane keeping as subject of this thread), they only use "several months", not "next several months". I don't believe Tesla ever expected to rollout all features within 3 months (as some people are saying that was how they interpreted it). They were going to roll out features progressively (off the top of my head I believe there was a 3 month gap between each update).
Most obvious reference is here:
"It will take several months for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars."
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/dual-motor-model-s-and-autopilot
I was willing to accept this position, up until Tesla just went radio silent on the entire issue on all contacts I've had with them. If they came out and said basically what you and others have said, that they intended to have the product out sooner but ran into issues that delayed it, and apologized to their paying customers for said delays, that would be a completely different story. Completely ignoring people and trying to sweep this under the rug, while STILL advertising it as an existing feature, is not really helping matters.
I'm honestly starting to think there's been some kind of internal memo that literally says to ignore anyone who asks about autopilot delays, the 691 HP issue, etc, or you're fired, because some people that I have spoken to in the past who have been extremely helpful in other instances have also started ignoring me since touching on these subjects.
Honestly, at this point it reeks of intentional misleading.
perkiset
... this one goes to 11
I think that's granting them much more than due. There doesn't need to be a grand conspiracy or intentional misdirection - it can just be an unhanded screwup. Intentional deception by a public corp is a bad, bad thing.
I think there's embarrassment, hope that it'll blow over when they release, ridiculous 24x7 work to fix this.
That said, I do think I heard about a memo that read something like, "if that wk057 guy pings us, just hang up."
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Or another possibility could be that they never intentionally intended to mislead, but now fear potential legal ramifications, so are just not saying anything, in an attempt to protect themselves.
I'm not defending this. I'm just pointing out that it could be consistent with both initially not intending to mislead, and what we're seeing now.
I think the people who keep throwing "threatening" around might want to actually look up the definition of that word.
In any case... I find it amusing that within minutes of my last post I got an email from Tesla. lol.
I think refusing to provide any information would be a predictable response to a process that has seen a number of schedule slips already. They know that in this age, any information they divulge is likely to be shared widely and rapidly by communities like this one. Many companies would react by passing the word through the organization that no one is to say anything on the subject. This would even be a rational decision if they feared litigation. I don't like it and I would vastly prefer if they just said "hey, we screwed up. This is a lot harder than we thought it was and it will be at least four more months." Even if they later had to say "Oops, beta testers exposed new issues and now it is going to be two more months." For me, information makes everything easier. I'm a senior IT guy and one of the things our organization does is to provide both transparency and tons of data about our process to the customer. When I know that the schedule slips, they know. Every step of our process is exposed to the customer and everyone is accountable. I think it is a better way to run an IT business, but lots of people don't agree with me.
Tesla's press communication gets a 103 out of 100, their communication with their owners is much closer to 3 than 103.
On preview, more or less what Andy said.
- - - Updated - - -
If they explain it to you, ask them to tell you when they will start doing ludicrous upgrades too.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
threat·en·ing
adjective
- having a hostile or deliberately frightening quality or manner.
"her mother had received a threatening letter"
synonyms: menacing, intimidating, bullying, frightening, hostile; formalminatory
"a threatening letter"
I'm actually just going to unsubscribe from this thread since I'm done with this issue. Tesla has definitely lost a customer and supporter over this and other issues they fail to seem to give a crap about. I'm tired of feeling like I'm in the 1% of P85D buyers who actually want what they paid for while everyone else appears to want to defend Tesla to death for their misrepresentations on multiple fronts. I've wasted more than enough time here on these issues, and I'm just done.
People accusing me of "threatening" Tesla, along with many other derogatory comments over the past few months doesn't really give me incentive to stick around either.
Edit: On second thought I think I'm going to put "127.0.0.1 www.teslamotorsclub.com" in my hosts file to prevent more time waste for a while.
People accusing me of "threatening" Tesla, along with many other derogatory comments over the past few months doesn't really give me incentive to stick around either.
Edit: On second thought I think I'm going to put "127.0.0.1 www.teslamotorsclub.com" in my hosts file to prevent more time waste for a while.
Similar threads
