If that is the case then I have lost all faith in Tesla engineering, and they will have a major sh*tstorm on their hands. Thankfully, I don't believe this is the case.
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If that is the case then I have lost all faith in Tesla engineering, and they will have a major sh*tstorm on their hands. Thankfully, I don't believe this is the case.
I think you could say "newer" but not "brand new" - they incorporated 12 years ago and have been producing vehicles for 7.5 years with what, 70,000 units sold so far?
You didn't have to watch the promotional videos to think you were getting things like Lane Keeping and Self Parking - they were listed as features of the car when you ordered.
Personally, I ordered the day they announced AutoPilot and was pretty surprised that all we got was TACC. I can understand inaccuracies with respect to range or power - but to say "the car will leave the ground and fly into the air" and give you a to-be-enabled-in-the-future propeller for nearly a year is a bummer.
I'm Tesla's biggest fan (although I seem to share that title with many). I love my car. I think we all just want what was promised.
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travwill
Active Member
Nah, I've had 2 cars that auto park fine and they have had only reverse and front sensors max, less than the MS as mines on side even. Range Rover, etc. they do fine without any "curb" specific sensors.
After reading this, I actually went to the order page and read what Autopilot would eventually give us.:
"
Autopilot combines a forward looking camera, radar, and 360 degree sonar sensors with real time traffic updates to automatically drive Model S on the open road and in dense stop and go traffic. Changing lanes becomes as simple as a tap of the turn signal. When you arrive at your destination, Model S will both detect a parking spot and automatically park itself. Standard equipment safety features are constantly monitoring stop signs, traffic signals and pedestrians, as well as for unintentional lane changes."
It's hard to believe that the current hardware will allow for all of this. Monitoring pedestrians and stop signs? Automatic lane changing? Does the car really have a 360 degree view?
Sonar, apparently yes. Camera? Not yet. But I'll accept retrofitting the around-view camera system on my car as full resolution for the AutoPilot delay.
Highway, as in intersections, stop lights, stop signs, idiots running across the road sometimes? Yeah... that's fine.
I think you are right. I may have been reading too much into it. Just says "now with Autopilot features", so its probably just TACC.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
These situations are where you would be required to be paying attention, the ones where "auto-pilot" and not "autonomous" driving comes into play.
What do you think the following means then?
"
Standard equipment safety features are constantly monitoring stop signs, traffic signals and pedestrians,"
Since I'm a believer that a model S refresh is coming withe the model X reveal, I think the next software update is being withheld for the release of these vehicles. The side cameras likely will be part of a dash change. Both the model X and S will presumably share instrument panel changes. These changes require software changes.
All the changes are interrelated. Once lane keeping got pushed close to the X reveal, it may have been "captured" by this release process.
All the changes are interrelated. Once lane keeping got pushed close to the X reveal, it may have been "captured" by this release process.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
That clearly isn't talking about what autopilot CAN do, but is a statement to get Tesla out of legal necessity. Yeah, if the car hits something it is ultimately your fault. However, even with the most pessimistic of views, it sounds like we can expect the car to:
Know a stop sign is approaching.
Know the status of a traffic light.
Know that a pedestrian is in the road.
That is very different from what you are claiming. I'll post it again in case you forgot. Emphasis mine.
These situations are where you would be required to be paying attention, the ones where "auto-pilot" and not "autonomous" driving comes into play.
I am currently "required" to pay attention to stop signs, traffic lights, and pedestrians in the road. The car can not see them, which is contrary to what Tesla's own website admits to.
As a philosophical side thought, what on earth is the point of autopilot if not to reduce the amount of attention I need to give towards the road?
You are going to have to "pay attention" for many years to come even after Tesla releases it freeway capable Autopilot this year.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Right, on the same page you pulled the quote from, they also have this:
So, what these two things imply to me, is that the car will be able to monitor all of these things, and give you an opportunity to react...not that the car will do so on its own.
... Standard equipment safety features are constantly monitoring stop signs, traffic signals and pedestrians, as well as for unintentional lane changes.
I have an issue with the above, boldfaced portion. Musk is on record saying that the Model S' current sensor suite is insufficient to detect certain soft objects, such as humans and pets, which is why Autopilot (in whatever form he's talking about) cannot be used in city situations at speeds between 20 MPH and 45 MPH. Musk said something along these lines during his interaction with NVidia CEO on stage a few months ago.
If that's the case, why is Tesla claiming that the system monitors for pedestrians? He already said current generation Autopilot sensors cannot do this.
I have an issue with the above, boldfaced portion. Musk is on record saying that the Model S' current sensor suite is insufficient to detect certain soft objects, such as humans and pets, which is why Autopilot (in whatever form he's talking about) cannot be used in city situations at speeds between 20 MPH and 45 MPH. Musk said something along these lines during his interaction with NVidia CEO on stage a few months ago.
If that's the case, why is Tesla claiming that the system monitors for pedestrians? He already said current generation Autopilot sensors cannot do this.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I don't remember the exact wording, but are you sure it just wasn't that it couldn't do it accurately enough to allow the vehicle to drive itself in city driving? I watched the conference so I know what you're talking about...but I don't remember the exact context.
The more I think about this, the more I agree with you. Perhaps Model S 2.0 is the "something else" that we will see during the X reveal that Elon has been hinting at for months. If you think about it from Tesla's perspective, it makes sense. Tesla tour guides in Fremont are telling those on tour that S and X will be assembled on the same lines, so no special line for X just by itself. This would imply a lot of shared components between the two vehicles.
Model X will have a much nicer interior for sure, along with improved and more updated technology. Without updating the Model S to the same, who in their right mind would buy an S over an X? One will look dated while the other will be brand spanking new with all of the latest Tegra processors, sensors, LED headlamps, and redesigned interior. Tesla has to keep S up-to-date with X if it expects to continue selling the S.
Count me in. I think we will see a significant refresh of the Model S during the X reveal.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Tesla use Mobileye? That supports pedestrian collision warning, but that doesn't mean it is reliable enough to brake for pedestrians automatically in a city setting (same with other types of collision warnings: even with auto-braking it'll slow down enough to reduce impact but doesn't claim to prevent impact).
I take it that is what that point means. While it monitors for pedestrians, stop signs, traffic lights, etc (and can warn you about them and maybe brake to reduce impact), it may not be robust enough to brake reliably for them enough that you can have auto-pilot in the city.
You will probably need far more sensors for that.
I take it that is what that point means. While it monitors for pedestrians, stop signs, traffic lights, etc (and can warn you about them and maybe brake to reduce impact), it may not be robust enough to brake reliably for them enough that you can have auto-pilot in the city.
You will probably need far more sensors for that.
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