Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[thx1139]

People who don't make software often have no clue how much uncertainty exists when doing something new (even recreating something someone else does on different hardware).

There are a lot of possibilities around pressure or even overstating things, but no reason to believe anything but "there were unanticipated complications."

Software goes over-schedule all the time. All. The. Time.

And in the old triangle of date, scope, and quality (you can have any two), if scope isn't flexible and quality isn't flexible (and I would damn well hope it's not), then time is your only flexible dimension.

They've already played with scope once to give you TACC and Auto-High Beams.

it's possible that the code for auto-steer and self-park is too intertwined to tease out one and deliver it first.

Or not. None of us know anything about the inner workings at Tesla.

But if they are looking for a senior software executive with plenty of entrepreneurial experience shipping code, my profile is right here.

+2. So many people just don't get how difficult software can be and in this case it is dealing with life and death.

 

[breser]

Looks like October for autopilot

Gosh I like I predicted way back in October 2014.

So there will be P85D owners who have their car a whole year before getting the Autopilot software installed on their cars. Yeah, I can understand people being upset about this!

August 15 + 1 or 2 months = September or October 15th. The earliest P85Ds were delivered in December. So no, unless 1-2 months becomes 4 months.

 

[jeffro01]

Highly subjective, but I don't think you'll find anyone that thinks that "several" equals "more than a dozen."

Again, context matters there though. Did I think several would directly equal a year? No. But, do I think a year is longer than several? No.

Jeff

 

[tezzla]

People who don't make software often have no clue how much uncertainty exists when doing something new (even recreating something someone else does on different hardware).

There are a lot of possibilities around pressure or even overstating things, but no reason to believe anything but "there were unanticipated complications."

Software goes over-schedule all the time. All. The. Time.

I know about programming: I've been in programming/software development since the 70's.

Oct 10 2014 - "We've been able to accelerate autopilot and bring it to market faster than originally anticipated," Elon Musk said to a gathered throng at Hawthorne Airport

 

[JST]

Gosh I like I predicted way back in October 2014.



August 15 + 1 or 2 months = September or October 15th. The earliest P85Ds were delivered in December. So no, unless 1-2 months becomes 4 months.

I'd bet that it does.

 

[wk057]

Yep, I was all over the autopilot announcement and I would not have purchased the P85D if someone at Tesla had said we wouldn't have anything close to the demonstrated autopilot functionality this long after I bought the car.

 

[TonyOrr]

Cars with Autopilot hardware were delivered a week or so before the October announcement so yes, it'll be a year... Very disappointing.

 

[gizmoboy]

"1 year" does not equal "several months"

"Several months" was not a contract. Don't act as if it was.

It was a statement (presumably in good faith) from the CEO based on what he knew at the time.

You took actions, possibly purchasing actions, based on this statement, but it's a forward-looking statement in every sense of the word (including legal).

Here's the typical disclaimer on forward-looking statements (this one taken from the latest shareholder letter):

These forward-looking statements are based on management’s current expectations, and as a result of certain risks and uncertainties, actual results may differ materially from those projected.

 

[jeffro01]

Very disappointing.

Why? Because it didn't come as fast as you thought it should? Show me a date, a deadline, and firm commitment as to when it would be available. Then and ONLY then could you possibly have any foundation to be upset, disappointed, or otherwise.

Jeff

 

[Majerus]

Why? Because it didn't come as fast as you thought it should? Show me a date, a deadline, and firm commitment as to when it would be available. Then and ONLY then could you possibly have any foundation to be upset, disappointed, or otherwise.

Jeff

Do you own an autopilot car?

 

[KK2]

Why? Because it didn't come as fast as you thought it should? Show me a date, a deadline, and firm commitment as to when it would be available. Then and ONLY then could you possibly have any foundation to be upset, disappointed, or otherwise.

Jeff

Just out of curiousity, do you own a Model S? Are you one of the people who has paid ~100K for the car on promised features, and have waited almost a year for the promised features?

If not, I'd have to discount your opinion as peanut gallery!

^^ Holy moly I asked the same question!

 

[TonyOrr]

Tesla making inaccurate estimates is one thing, demoing the actual Autopilot is another. Its completely misleading to demonstrate full Autopilot, charge your customers for it and then not deliver it for a year. Totally unacceptable.

 

[wk057]

Tesla making inaccurate estimates is one thing, demoing the actual Autopilot is another. Its completely misleading to demonstrate full Autopilot, charge your customers for it and then not deliver it for a year. Totally unacceptable.

^ this.

 

[breser]

Do you own an autopilot car?

Just out of curiousity, do you own a Model S? Are you one of the people who has paid ~100K for the car on promised features, and have waited almost a year for the promised features?

If not, I'd have to discount your opinion as peanut gallery!

^^ Holy moly I asked the same question!

I do and I traded a 2 month old Model S to get it. So yes some of us that are in the boat of waiting for this feature are indeed not upset about the delay.

 

[gizmoboy]

I know about programming: I've been in programming/software development since the 70's.

Oct 10 2014 - "We've been able to accelerate autopilot and bring it to market faster than originally anticipated," Elon Musk said to a gathered throng at Hawthorne Airport

I'm not going to debate picking apart words. Look, I agree that Tesla's website acts as if this stuff is here, and that's bad.

And I don't want to "blame the victim" and say you should have done better research before you bought.

I understand why you feel wronged, but there's nothing you can do to make it come faster than it will come, and it will come when they get it done.

There's clearly no incentive for Tesla to hold it back; I'm sure they want it out as much as any of you do (probably more), but they believe it's not ready for prime time yet as a group.

And maybe Musk knew this earlier, and maybe he didn't, but reality didn't align with his publicly-stated expectations.

If you're arguing that Musk intentionally defrauded you, that's a steep hill to climb, but there are paths on the hill that anyone if free to take.

 

[wk057]

"Several months" was not a contract. Don't act as if it was.

It was a statement (presumably in good faith) from the CEO based on what he knew at the time.

You took actions, possibly purchasing actions, based on this statement, but it's a forward-looking statement in every sense of the word (including legal).

Here's the typical disclaimer on forward-looking statements (this one taken from the latest shareholder letter):

These forward-looking statements are based on management’s current expectations, and as a result of certain risks and uncertainties, actual results may differ materially from those projected.

The "several months" term was on the order page. My VPA says "Tech package with Autopilot" as a line item. My car obviously does not have autopilot, so that would seem like an obvious legal angle for breach of contract.

 

[KK2]

I do and I traded a 2 month old Model S to get it. So yes some of us that are in the boat of waiting for this feature are indeed not upset about the delay.

I would value your stance far more than someone sitting on the side tossing comments with no skin in the game.
I do admire your not being upset though. Nice car nonetheless. I'm happy with mine.

 

[gizmoboy]

Tesla making inaccurate estimates is one thing, demoing the actual Autopilot is another. Its completely misleading to demonstrate full Autopilot, charge your customers for it and then not deliver it for a year. Totally unacceptable.

The only way to address this argument is to blame the victim (did you explicitly confirm that this was available now? If not, you took a gamble, and it has yet to pay off).

I've already said I don't want to do that, but it seems like you've never seen a technology demo before. These things are always done, and if you know anything about them, they're almost always canned demos cobbling together a certain non-edge-case scenario that the engineers hope will work and the CEO says damn well better work. They are very seldom finished product, and as the old saying goes, there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip. You think you're just about there and then it turns out you're not. That one last bug opens up a whole can of worms, and years later you're still not there. This is far from unheard of in technology circles.

This characteristic of technology demos is widely documented. It's the rare demo that is a fully-baked product.

Now, I agree that Musk could have more blatantly called out risks, but no CEO does that in a public demo. And I certainly agree that the Tesla website to this day has misleading information regarding the availability of these features.

But as far as I can tell, there's nothing here that surprises me.

It's why I'm waiting to buy until the stuff in my personal must-have list is actually there.

 

[Majerus]

I would value your stance far more than someone sitting on the side tossing comments with no skin in the game.
I do admire your not being upset though. Nice car nonetheless. I'm happy with mine.

Same here

 

[anxman]

I'm annoyed and disappointed but I do not believe we have a lot of leverage to claim any compensation from Tesla. Tesla has never offered a specific timeline for Autopilot. While many of us have gotten our hopes up a bit, that's mainly our own fault.