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I argued this point earlier, but I can no longer do so after hearing this earnings call. We are now talking about Autopilot not rolling out for a FULL YEAR after the feature was announced to be available "within a few months". 12 months is decidedly not "a few". A few is a handful at most, maybe six. I feel bad for those who bought based on the Autopilot availability and based upon the misleading wording of Tesla's web site. I wouldn't be surprised if owners took some sort of action at this point. I just don't know what action would be appropriate. Let's add to this the whole P85D horsepower debacle, only to be charged another $5,000 to get the performance that many felt Tesla originally advertised. If this goes through legal channels, which I fear it may, there is going to be a big bag of hurt for Tesla and its shareholders.
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Then don't announce a ridiculously optimistic release date. Or better yet, just don't announce it at all until it's ready! What Tesla is doing is completely childish.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Originally Posted by wk057
I'll point out that I'm not currently pursuing legal action of any kind against Tesla. I am, however, informally exploring options with them to remedy this situation to my satisfaction.
Your mountain of posts about this probably won't serve you well in any negotiation. Clearly your choice of course. I personally prefer not to play all my cards publicly before heading into a negotiation.
I've been pursuing remedies informally since before I started this thread and those I've been in contact with are well aware of this thread and my feelings on the matter. I don't change my feelings based on who I'm speaking to about the topic, so it makes no difference if they're public or not, they're getting the same information either way.
It was a representation made by the company's highest officer, and therefore, by the company itself. It doesn't need to be a contract. It was an advertisement, one that many are now saying was misleading.
There was no "forward looking statement" disclaimer or advisory anywhere during the Autopilot and D launch event. Not everything the CEO says is covered by a blanket "forward looking statement" unless the disclaimer is made specifically during that announcement or session - as it is during the shareholder meeting. What Elon is doing here is making himself look incompetent.
Exactly... in a shareholder letter. Never said that during the D and autopilot launch.
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... and use words in the marketing and on the web site that is present-tense as if the feature is already implemented.
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Quote by jeffro01 - I don't think I'm even remotely interested in buying a Model S now
LOL .. jeffro01 .. really?
That said, there are many patient people who do have skin in the game. Those you have to admire and respect.
About me - I own an autopilot Model S, and I invest and follow TSLA closely. I also have a 5kwh solar panel on the roof (solar city).
I heard the conf. call today, I think Tesla and Elon realize the Autopilot debacle. They are under pressure. They are very cognizant of not overpromising. At one point Elon said, "I don't want to overpromise, so a victory feels like a victory"... and this was in reference to one presser pushing him on the level of 'auto' in 'autopilot'. Elon also said that Autopilot will get better with time with software updates, without hardware updates.
Since I'm an Elon fanboy, I'm willing to let it go for a bit longer. They said end of Q3, take a deep breath, lets give them a little more time where we have given them so much.
jeffro01
Active Member
I'd rather not comment on my legal credentials, other than to say that no I am not a licensed attorney nor have I represented myself as such. I work with contracts for a living though so you might say that I'm well versed in them.
Specifically as it relates to me being a Model S owner, nope. I don't see how that has any bearing on this argument either but hey... If you want take that angle that I have no right to an opinion because I haven't bought one then so be it. I am a shareholder though so I am personally invested on Tesla being a success.
The one thing that seems to slip some of your minds on a consistent basis is Tesla never set a launch date, never set an available by "X" date, while your MVPA may say the words "autopilot" on it and you may believe that means what you were demoed, their website clearly states what is and is not currently available with "autopilot". While I don't recall what the text said when you took delivery of your Model S with the autopilot hardware, unless you can show that they listed features available at that time, that weren't actually available, then I fail to see just what legal ground you expect to stand on.
Just put your money where your mouth is, or where your friend(s) mouths are, and sue them. Nothing Tesla is going to offer you is going to cure this feeling that you have causing you to feel like you've been cheated.
Jeff
Specifically as it relates to me being a Model S owner, nope. I don't see how that has any bearing on this argument either but hey... If you want take that angle that I have no right to an opinion because I haven't bought one then so be it. I am a shareholder though so I am personally invested on Tesla being a success.
The one thing that seems to slip some of your minds on a consistent basis is Tesla never set a launch date, never set an available by "X" date, while your MVPA may say the words "autopilot" on it and you may believe that means what you were demoed, their website clearly states what is and is not currently available with "autopilot". While I don't recall what the text said when you took delivery of your Model S with the autopilot hardware, unless you can show that they listed features available at that time, that weren't actually available, then I fail to see just what legal ground you expect to stand on.
Just put your money where your mouth is, or where your friend(s) mouths are, and sue them. Nothing Tesla is going to offer you is going to cure this feeling that you have causing you to feel like you've been cheated.
Jeff
davidc18
Active Member
Just to throw something else out there--Elon referred to low contrast, white lane markings on grey pavement as a "corner case."
Not sure how much driving he's done on well-salted roads recently, but that sounds like about 6 months of the year up north. And that's even factoring in actual snow.
Not sure how much driving he's done on well-salted roads recently, but that sounds like about 6 months of the year up north. And that's even factoring in actual snow.
You mean like Autopilot taking a year instead of "several months"? It seems Musk has already set a precedent for saying one thing when he means another.
Meanwhile, the 2016 BMW 7 Series will have all of these features promised by Tesla, and on launch, and at a lower price point than a P85D.
perkiset
... this one goes to 11
He's been a voice of reason. +1, Jeffro01.
Really?
So you're saying that something you required for this summer's driving trips...
a mission critical component...
the decision of what to purchase relied on that one feature...
...and was decided based on the expectation of hype from a high tech company?
So rather than purchasing any number of other cars that had this mission critical capability, you HAD to have a Tesla and it HAD to have those features or you wouldn't've purchased it?
I call bull. Either you were fooling yourself then or fooling yourself now. I agree. Sue away, it'll certainly make for additional interesting threads.
Joining the party, I've been programming since '73 and have been a senior architect for the last 25 years. Missing a deadline by a year is bad form, but hardly unprecedented and CERTAINLY within the scope of reality for a feature that DIRECTLY affects lives. My current business involves cloud based delivery of radiation treatment from Xray-based linear accelerators for cancer. I can tell you WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION that the business component of a company, eager to please share holders, will often take the optimistic side of the coder's statements, because delivering the bad news is off-putting to potential investors and hard on your stock price. It does not take a genius to figure out what is going on there. Do you honestly think that Elon WANTS to be this behind? It damages Tesla's value Every. Single. Day.
As a lessee of an Autopilot S85D I'm am eagerly waiting for the update. I might be pretty disappointed as well, if I'd been into the car for a full year before the update came - but I'd either not've acquired the car if it were that critical, or, like I am now, just be pleased that I have it, it's wonderful for all the right reasons and it'll be like Christmas when the new features arrive.
jeffro01
Active Member
Wish Evil? What? I just wish someone would stop threatening and thrashing around like a tiger in a cage and either follow through with their threats or let it go. I don't care how many Tesla's that person has purchased or what they've done with solar energy and battery storage. None of that has any bearing on this situation. None. You don't get a pass at behaving like this simply because you have solar panels and a battery at your house...
Jeff
perkiset
... this one goes to 11
Being a share holder , I would expect you to understand how some customers are angry at the delay, lack of communication.
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Just caught that
jeffro01
Active Member
I see, so because I don't own a Model S currently then I'm banned from responding to, or starting, any posts on TMC? Neat, when did that rule start?
If you're going to address me then expect a reply from me. If you don't want me to reply anymore then stop addressing me. That being said, if you think for one second that you are in any position to dictate to me how\when\what I post, so long as it's according to the rules of the forum, then you are very sadly mistaken.
Jeff
That makes total sense then! As an investor, he would rather not see any negative emotion about the company.
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