Autopilot needs manual lane change without disengage

[TesslaBull]

How would it know if you are not drifting away or you want to change lanes? You need to tell the car. How do you do that? Use the turn signal stalk.

sorry if you don't like it. I hope Elon does not change that design based upon such reviews.

No, I agree 100% that the turn signal should be used. My issue is that using the turn signal doesn't affect AP. If I turn on the turn signal, then apply pressure to the wheel, I would prefer that AP allowed the manual lane change without fighting my pressure on the wheel, and that it didn't disengage. Rather, it should resume AP duties after the lane change.

Your hope is that AP has zero lane change capability whatsoever?

 

[enemji]

Have you ever driven any other car with lane centering? The way it behaves with basic autopilot is asinine.

Yes, holding the turn signal will disable autosteer but why would you have to hold it? That’s not intuitive. Why else would you use the turn signal if you didn’t intend to change lanes? Plus it doesn’t re-engage itself after the lane change.

In every other vehicle with lane centering, turning on the turn signal automatically pauses lane centering. No holding the stalk necessary. No bing-bong or other warning sounds (unless someone in your blind spot). You change lanes like normal without fighting the steering wheel. After you finishing changing lanes and cancel the turn signal (or it auto cancels after triple blink) the lane centering automatically resumes. No need to manually turn it back on. No bong-bing sounds. Very natural and expected behavior.

We are getting there. Right now if you turn on the signal, and if you change lanes, the turn signal stops. Next step would be to reengage AP. Not too far away, I ma sure. But I definitely would not want the option of being able to change lanes without the turn signal turned on.

 

[TesslaBull]

We are getting there. Right now if you turn on the signal, and if you change lanes, the turn signal stops. Next step would be to reengage AP. Not too far away, I ma sure. But I definitely would not want the option of being able to change lanes without the turn signal turned on.

No one ever said this, or asked for it, or suggested it. You have somehow misunderstood. What I would like to see, is to be able to USE THE TURN SIGNAL, do a manual lane change without AP disengaging, then AP resumes lane control after the manual lane change. The competition does it.

 

[enemji]

No one ever said this, or asked for it, or suggested it. You have somehow misunderstood. What I would like to see, is to be able to USE THE TURN SIGNAL, do a manual lane change without AP disengaging, then AP resumes lane control after the manual lane change. The competition does it.

Your post made me believe that you did.
Ambiguous as I don’t know how Mercedes works.

“So, considering that Mercede's driver assist tech allows for manual lane change without disengaging, I would like to see Tesla add this functionality into AP.”

 

[E90alex]

We are getting there. Right now if you turn on the signal, and if you change lanes, the turn signal stops. Next step would be to reengage AP. Not too far away, I ma sure. But I definitely would not want the option of being able to change lanes without the turn signal turned on.

It shouldn’t be “getting there” still since Tesla is considered to be at the bleeding edge of technology by some people. We should have already been there and past that point of technology.

My 2018 Volkswagen operated like how I described and it was great. I could also position the car more left or right within the lane to give more space to a bigger vehicle or avoid ruts and potholes without cancelling lane assist. Autopilot locks you strictly in the middle and cancels autosteer if you want to stray off a little bit.

The way basic autopilot works currently, I never want to use it because it’s so annoying. And it’s by design to force people to upgrade to EAP for a better experience. There’s no reason they can’t change the behavior otherwise.

 

[240vPlug]

Unlikely Tesla will offer this functionality. If you want easier lane changes Tesla want to push you toward EAP or FSD. If they offered this I see that significantly reducing the take rate for EAP. Would be nice to not have to pay extra for the features though.

 

[TesslaBull]

I find lack of start button and exterior door lock controls more annoying than helpful and Bluetooth based phone key less secure and less reliable.

I don’t want the car to start the radio and HVAC everytime I open a door. There are also times when I want to get out of the car and close the door but have the car remain on.

I don’t trust the phone key to auto lock on walk away and I would prefer to press a button to lock the doors so I can confirm before leaving. Sometimes you have to get 50+ feet away from the car before it locks, leaving opportunity for someone to sneak up and access your car before it locks.

The Bluetooth based phone key also cannot tell if the key is inside or outside the vehicle, only that it’s in “close enough” proximity to the car. You can be standing 5 feet away from the vehicle and someone can open the door and drive off.

If I want to feel extra secure about physically pushing a lock button, maybe in a very loud area where you might not hear or see the auto lock execute, I just push the lock button on my phone app. I have to pick up my phone anyway when I exit the car, so this is not inconvenient at all. So that is a complete non issue for me, as is the start/stop button. I'm in the car with my phone....pretty obvious I want to drive so why also manually turn the car on with a button? It's just an extra, totally unnecessary step. And they do so in a smart way...the car turns on only when you step on the brake. So it doesn't turn on if you just get in the car to check something. Really smart engineering to me. Same as when I walk away from the car.....obviously can't drive when I'm not in it, so why manually turn it off when leaving? All of this really just comes down to "because that's how its always been done" and not "let's find the optimal way of doing things." The "that's how it's always been done" is not a matter of optimal, but in the olden days, ignition switches required physically turning an ignition lock cylinder with a key. Technology has improved so to me, pressing a physical button is just a remnant of outdated technology for which we now have much simpler and easier solutions. Walk to the car, open the door, get in, drive. When you're done driving, get out. Can't be any easier. Didn't realize how much I'd come to appreciate this optimal experience until I went back to the old outdated tech of using a key fob and pressing a start button.

There is also an easy feature for extra security in which you can simply require a pin to drive the car. If your phone is ever stolen or you leave it in the car by accident, the car cannot be driven.

 

[TesslaBull]

I hadn't driven it in a while and honestly hadn't paid much attention previously. I just drove our 2022 Kia Niro on some errands as I needed to pickup a bulky item. On the highway, I turned on adaptive cruise control, which has always worked extremely well. Then, I turned on lane keep assist. The car basically drove itself just like basic AP. To be fair, lane assist does not work as well as in the Tesla. It tends to drift closer to the lines and then steer back to center. However, when I turned on the turn signal to pass, lane assist automatically paused, allowed me to change lanes, then automatically resumed lane assist. No disengage. No need to jerk the wheel to disengage. No need to re-engage. Just.... easy. The indicator for lane assist changed colors when I signaled, then turned green again once it re-engaged. Better than Tesla, and $0 cost...it came with the vehicle.

Anyways, just another data point as I hadn't really paid close attention before. I think the non-user friendliness of AP made me pay attention to see what's what.

 

[Big Dog]

disagree that such a feature would not eat Into EAP sales, as that is one of the few things in EAP that is useful.

 

[TesslaBull]

EAP changes lane on its own if you signal, correct? No need to manually steer? And automatically takes exits onto different intestates i.e. basically navigates from exit to exit including interchanges? Seems like it offers a lot more than just allowing a manual lane change.

 

[TesslaBull]

Another update about how AP works for me that I wasn't clear on. When I soft press the turn signal, it does not disengage AP, hence having to turn the wheel quite hard to turn off AP which lead to the jerkiness of changing lanes etc. When I fully press the turn signal, it does disengage AP and allows a smoother manual lane change. So I have to change the way I drive to get AP to work smoothly even in its substandard way.

A little off topic on the matter, but I might do a month subscription to FSD for a long road trip in July just to try it out.

 

[E90alex]

A little off topic on the matter, but I might do a month subscription to FSD for a long road trip in July just to try it out.

Just FYI, the subscription will give you immediate access to standard FSD which is just EAP with traffic light and stop sign control.

If you were hoping to get access to FSD beta, that requires a different software which is typically months behind regular software versions. Tesla does not support downgrading software versions, so subscribing to FSD for just a month is highly unlikely to get you beta access unless you purposely do not update your car software for months to make sure your car software is older than the beta software at the time of subscription.

 

[tmartin]

No one ever said this, or asked for it, or suggested it. You have somehow misunderstood. What I would like to see, is to be able to USE THE TURN SIGNAL, do a manual lane change without AP disengaging, then AP resumes lane control after the manual lane change. The competition does it.

I can confirm that's how the Kia Niro EV does it. Totally natural. It _just_ works. Tesla's AP is not well thought out. I hate it and will not use it anymore. As a matter of fact, this is so basic that I am looking to get another EV. Basic stuff just has to work. Right now, other drivers must think that there is some sort of fight going on in my car - and there is: I am fighting the steering wheel. Scarry stuff at highway speed.

 

[tmartin]

EAP changes lane on its own if you signal, correct? No need to manually steer? And automatically takes exits onto different intestates i.e. basically navigates from exit to exit including interchanges? Seems like it offers a lot more than just allowing a manual lane change.

It does - but how it does that is by holding the flasher until lane change is complete. And god help you if you let go early: The car jerks back into the lane it came from. Unbelievable. I am scared to let go early - and if you hold too long, it starts going over another lane. And if you let go early, it will jerk back. One tap on the blinker should start the maneuver. That's it. Nothing more. EAP is very poorly designed for real world driving on long boring interstates.

 

[tmartin]

Just FYI, the subscription will give you immediate access to standard FSD which is just EAP with traffic light and stop sign control.

If you were hoping to get access to FSD beta, that requires a different software which is typically months behind regular software versions. Tesla does not support downgrading software versions, so subscribing to FSD for just a month is highly unlikely to get you beta access unless you purposely do not update your car software for months to make sure your car software is older than the beta software at the time of subscription.

Traffic light and stop sign control is NOT useful: It will stop at all lights, no matter their color. Green light? Stop. Red light? Stop. Except for the times when it "runs" a green light. How does that inspire any confidence when it's not stopping at a green light 100% of the time? How is this system useful beyond teaching high-school seniors how to develop a SW project? This stuff needs to be so reliable that it's months before there is even one false action taken by the car. Calling it 'beta' is being very generous, this needs to be called 'dev', then comes 'alpha', then 'beta'.

 

[johnm]

It does - but how it does that is by holding the flasher until lane change is complete. And god help you if you let go early: The car jerks back into the lane it came from. Unbelievable. I am scared to let go early - and if you hold too long, it starts going over another lane. And if you let go early, it will jerk back. One tap on the blinker should start the maneuver. That's it. Nothing more. EAP is very poorly designed for real world driving on long boring interstates.

Have you tried pushing the stalk all the way?

 

[tmartin]

Have you tried pushing the stalk all the way?

I thought I tried that, but too late now: I was driving a loaner while my Y was getting a water leak repaired.

 

[evannole]

It does - but how it does that is by holding the flasher until lane change is complete. And god help you if you let go early: The car jerks back into the lane it came from. Unbelievable. I am scared to let go early - and if you hold too long, it starts going over another lane. And if you let go early, it will jerk back. One tap on the blinker should start the maneuver. That's it. Nothing more. EAP is very poorly designed for real world driving on long boring interstates.

I've had EAP for five years. This is not how my car behaves. I have to signal once for every lane change I want to make. If I want to get over three lanes, I have to press the stalk again after each lane change. This is fine with me.

 

[Canefan456]

No one ever said this, or asked for it, or suggested it. You have somehow misunderstood. What I would like to see, is to be able to USE THE TURN SIGNAL, do a manual lane change without AP disengaging, then AP resumes lane control after the manual lane change. The competition does it.

I'm so confused by this. Doesn't it already work this way? If I'm driving along with FSD engaged and want to manually change lanes, I will just engage the turn signal (all the way), and the car will move over when safe to do so. FSD remains engaged and the car continues in the new lane I've selected. I always enable the "Minimal Lane Change for this drive" function so that I have full control over lane changes and I wish I could select that by default.

 

[TesslaBull]

I'm so confused by this. Doesn't it already work this way? If I'm driving along with FSD engaged and want to manually change lanes, I will just engage the turn signal (all the way), and the car will move over when safe to do so. FSD remains engaged and the car continues in the new lane I've selected. I always enable the "Minimal Lane Change for this drive" function so that I have full control over lane changes and I wish I could select that by default.

You missed the thread title, as well as the term AP in my post that you quoted:

"Autopilot needs manual lane change without disengage"​

"What I would like to see, is to be able to USE THE TURN SIGNAL, do a manual lane change without AP disengaging, then AP resumes lane control after the manual lane change."