Autopilot needs manual lane change without disengage

[terranx]

Ford charges $800 per year for Blue cruise. You can't use it off the interstate (or even on all interstates) and won't do automatic lane changes. You have to initiate it, when it's released. If you don't think that additional expanded use and automation are worth an extra $400 per year, that's fine, but how do you define "better"?

We could do the same for every competitor. Super Cruise requires the highest trim level plus $2,500. Is that cheaper? Certainly doesn't have the same access that even AP has which can be used anywhere.

Ford’s blue cruise is more analogous to FSD beta which costs $15k or $2400 yearly.

Everyone’s equivalent to basic autopilot is either free or cheap, and includes the lane change capability. Stepping up to EAP costs more than those other companies features. And doesn’t even get you superior hardware like radar or ultrasonic sensors. And the other companies tend to have much lower incidence of issues like phantom braking.

 

[EVNow]

Ford’s blue cruise is more analogous to FSD beta which costs $15k or $2400 yearly.

Nonsense- blue cruise is like NOA (does it even have interchange?).

There is nothing else in US that does city navigation.

 

[MikeGracz]

The old version of AP allowed automatic lane changes without disengaging AP.
All you had to do was hold the turn signal and it would change lanes (monitoring the neighboring lane to make sure it was clear).
They removed this functionality. I really miss it.

I was wondering about this topic- When I ordered my Model S (Palladium) in March 2021 there was no option to purchase Enhanced Autopilot. That option came around June 2022. I was under the impression that auto lane change was part of the autopilot-autosteer package back then. The owner manual implies it, but it also has a caveat about auto lane change and adaptive cruise control and autosteer... maybe won't work depending on your region, etc... I also recall an early conversation with my sales rep that auto lane change should have been part of the autosteer-autopilot package back then.

However, from delivery day (September 28 2021) auto-lane change has never initiated on my car from a turn signal press while autosteer was engaged.
Therefore: My question for other Palladium owners of a similar vintage without FSD (and maybe anyone else- with a delivery date of July 2021 until late May or early June 2022) did/does auto lane change work for you? If so, did you lose it when EAP became available?

Another, maybe related, question: can anyone else with a Palladium S (the refresh version that came out late 2021) change the following distance in autopilot using their scroll wheel? I can't.

 

[Supcom]

I was wondering about this topic- When I ordered my Model S (Palladium) in March 2021 there was no option to purchase Enhanced Autopilot. That option came around June 2022. I was under the impression that auto lane change was part of the autopilot-autosteer package back then. The owner manual implies it, but it also has a caveat about auto lane change and adaptive cruise control and autosteer... maybe won't work depending on your region, etc... I also recall an early conversation with my sales rep that auto lane change should have been part of the autosteer-autopilot package back then.

However, from delivery day (September 28 2021) auto-lane change has never initiated on my car from a turn signal press while autosteer was engaged.
Therefore: My question for other Palladium owners of a similar vintage without FSD (and maybe anyone else- with a delivery date of July 2021 until late May or early June 2022) did/does auto lane change work for you? If so, did you lose it when EAP became available?

Another, maybe related, question: can anyone else with a Palladium S (the refresh version that came out late 2021) change the following distance in autopilot using their scroll wheel? I can't.

I took delivery of a M3LR in Sept 2021. Basic AP did not have auto lane change. To change lanes, you had to disengage AP, then reengage it afterward. To get auto lane change back then required FSD. EAP was not available at the time.

As far as I know, all cars delivered at the time had the same limitations.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I was wondering about this topic- When I ordered my Model S (Palladium) in March 2021 there was no option to purchase Enhanced Autopilot. That option came around June 2022. I was under the impression that auto lane change was part of the autopilot-autosteer package back then. The owner manual implies it, but it also has a caveat about auto lane change and adaptive cruise control and autosteer... maybe won't work depending on your region, etc... I also recall an early conversation with my sales rep that auto lane change should have been part of the autosteer-autopilot package back then.

However, from delivery day (September 28 2021) auto-lane change has never initiated on my car from a turn signal press while autosteer was engaged.
Therefore: My question for other Palladium owners of a similar vintage without FSD (and maybe anyone else- with a delivery date of July 2021 until late May or early June 2022) did/does auto lane change work for you? If so, did you lose it when EAP became available?

Another, maybe related, question: can anyone else with a Palladium S (the refresh version that came out late 2021) change the following distance in autopilot using their scroll wheel? I can't.

No. Autolane change wasn't free in the Palladium S/X, nor can you change follow distance or FSD Beta profiles with the scroll wheel. The S/X also lack the customizable left scroll wheel in the newer updates.

 

[EatsShoots]

I hadn't driven it in a while and honestly hadn't paid much attention previously. I just drove our 2022 Kia Niro on some errands as I needed to pickup a bulky item. On the highway, I turned on adaptive cruise control, which has always worked extremely well. Then, I turned on lane keep assist. The car basically drove itself just like basic AP. To be fair, lane assist does not work as well as in the Tesla. It tends to drift closer to the lines and then steer back to center. However, when I turned on the turn signal to pass, lane assist automatically paused, allowed me to change lanes, then automatically resumed lane assist. No disengage. No need to jerk the wheel to disengage. No need to re-engage. Just.... easy. The indicator for lane assist changed colors when I signaled, then turned green again once it re-engaged. Better than Tesla, and $0 cost...it came with the vehicle.

Anyways, just another data point as I hadn't really paid close attention before. I think the non-user friendliness of AP made me pay attention to see what's what.

This is how the assist on Volvo works and my late model Toyota. I’m actually kinda shocked and a bit disheartened to learn I need to reengage AP each time?! Picking up new car this Saturday.

My wife drives two hours/day on highway. She doesn’t actually care much about land assist (it’s awful in our 2022 Toyota—just awful).

Can someone answer with basic AP:

1) TACC engaged—only; don’t care about lane assist
2) come upon traffic and it slows
3) signal to move to left

Does TACC disengage at this point? Is regular cruise still in play? Must gas pedal be used to get back up to original set speed? Must AP be engaged again?

 

[clydeiii]

This is how the assist on Volvo works and my late model Toyota. I’m actually kinda shocked and a bit disheartened to learn I need to reengage AP each time?! Picking up new car this Saturday.

My wife drives two hours/day on highway. She doesn’t actually care much about land assist (it’s awful in our 2022 Toyota—just awful).

Can someone answer with basic AP:

1) TACC engaged—only; don’t care about lane assist
2) come upon traffic and it slows
3) signal to move to left

Does TACC disengage at this point? Is regular cruise still in play? Must gas pedal be used to get back up to original set speed? Must AP be engaged again?

TACC won’t disengage unless you press brake.

You should try AP tho, it’s glorious.

Edit: ah I see the confusion: when we say AP we mean lane assist; when we say AP we never mean TACC.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

TACC won’t disengage unless you press brake.

You should try AP tho, it’s glorious.

Edit: ah I see the confusion: when we say AP we mean lane assist; when we say AP we never mean TACC.

And yet, Tesla defines Autopilot thusly:

Autopilot:​

Autopilot includes the following functionality and features:

• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control: Matches the speed of your car to that of the surrounding traffic
• Autosteer: Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability | Tesla Support

Autopilot is an advanced driver assistance system that enhances safety and convenience behind the wheel. When used properly, Autopilot reduces your overall workload as a driver. Learn more about Autopilot.

www.tesla.com

(This is one of my bitches about this forum and others. People throw around Tesla words or acronyms without using them properly and then everyone gets into a huff saying YES! AP does this and NO! AP doesn't do that. In this post-truth world, all words mean whatever anyone wants them to mean which severely impairs the ability to communicate with other people since one cannot assume a basic vocabulary with which to communicate.)

 

[EatsShoots]

It seems to me Tesla erred in making three tiers in this range and struggles to differentiate.

Anyway, as long as I can keep my "radar" [vision] adaptive cruise engaged at all times that's the main thing. Even just basic adaptive cruise is extremely nice on the highway.

 

[jsnfox]

Update. Manufacturers that work as they should( i.e. allow manual lane change without disengaging and re-engaging every time):

Kia does it.
Hyundai does it(2019 , not sure how much earlier).
Subaru does it.
Mercedes does it.
Volkswagen does it....back since at least 2018 according to a post in this thread.
Honda.

It's a very basic, user friendly feature.

Add Toyota to the list....we picked up my wife's new Grand Highlander last weekend that came with their version of Lane Centering & Adaptive Cruise. It works just like has been described....while engaged, signal & manually change lanes, it automatically re-engages.

Combined with the fact that it's not limited to +5 mph on 2 lane highways.....I think it's a better system than Tesla's AP that I use daily.

 

[EatsShoots]

Add Toyota to the list....we picked up my wife's new Grand Highlander last weekend that came with their version of Lane Centering & Adaptive Cruise. It works just like has been described....while engaged, signal & manually change lanes, it automatically re-engages.

Combined with the fact that it's not limited to +5 mph on 2 lane highways.....I think it's a better system than Tesla's AP that I use daily.

We've a 2022 Rav4 with toyota safety sense 2.5+. You have 3.0, so I wonder how yours works. The radar cruise in the rav is exemplary. Its lane keeping is highly unreliable--so much so that I just don't like to use it. It has a hell of a time staying in the lane, and the alerts are frequent and irritating. Definitely inferior to the pilot assist in 2018 Volvos (and that was by no means fantastic).

To be frank I think all of these systems' requirement to hold the steering wheel to be deeply flawed. Chevy knew this when they put the camera in for supercruise. I drove a thousand miles in a day last year in a 2021 volvo using its pilot assist for most of the drive. I balanced my phone on the steering wheel to trigger its resistance detection. I was paying attention the entire way and it made the drive head over heels less tiring than the same one absent those assists (which I had done a couple years earlier). I did have many thousands of miles between the 2021 and 2018 volvo so I knew it never made unexpected harsh jerks on the highway.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

It seems to me Tesla erred in making three tiers in this range and struggles to differentiate.

Anyway, as long as I can keep my "radar" [vision] adaptive cruise engaged at all times that's the main thing. Even just basic adaptive cruise is extremely nice on the highway.

I don't think it was an error on Tesla's part. It was deliberate in order to confuse people. If it was truly an error, they would have renamed the tiers for clarity. And they would not have added an additional tier called FSDbeta.

Not only is there confusion in forums like these, there's the ongoing insult to customers with the monthly rental of FSD capability. There are threads from EAP owners who have paid $100 for FSD in order to try out FSDb and yet their vehicles are not on an update path to receive the software for the foreseeable future. NO REFUNDS because they got "Traffic and Stop Sign Control (Beta): Identifies stop signs and traffic lights and automatically slows your car to a stop on approach, with your active supervision" which is exactly what FSD currently is for owners with EAP. Those without EAP pay twice that to get EAP, plus stop signs and traffic light awareness. All the while thinking they are subscribing to FSDb.

 

[jsnfox]

We've a 2022 Rav4 with toyota safety sense 2.5+. You have 3.0, so I wonder how yours works. The radar cruise in the rav is exemplary. Its lane keeping is highly unreliable--so much so that I just don't like to use it. It has a hell of a time staying in the lane, and the alerts are frequent and irritating. Definitely inferior to the pilot assist in 2018 Volvos (and that was by no means fantastic).

To be frank I think all of these systems' requirement to hold the steering wheel to be deeply flawed. Chevy knew this when they put the camera in for supercruise. I drove a thousand miles in a day last year in a 2021 volvo using its pilot assist for most of the drive. I balanced my phone on the steering wheel to trigger its resistance detection. I was paying attention the entire way and it made the drive head over heels less tiring than the same one absent those assists (which I had done a couple years earlier). I did have many thousands of miles between the 2021 and 2018 volvo so I knew it never made unexpected harsh jerks on the highway.

The lane centering with the Toyota 3.0 has been flawless for me on interstate & highway use.....it is every bit as good at keeping the vehicle centered as my Model 3.

The fact that it re-engages automatically after a lane change and doesn't limit me to +5 mph on 2 lane highway is a huge plus....enough that it will probably be my preferred vehicle for longer drives now instead of my 3. It does bug you for steering wheel input a lot, which is annoying but it also takes almost no force to keep it happy. If I could balance my cell phone on the side of the wheel, I think it would be enough.

 

[Two-rocks]

It long past due for Tesla to remove the "Beta" from Autopilot., and I think it's coming before year end (single stack software, using FSDb for lane keep assist and cruse control - AKA: Autopilot). (Just maybe then it won't weave toward off/on ramps like a dumb f*ck).

As far as lane change - I think Tesla is in somewhat of a pickle with that - selling EAP for $6K means it'll never be part of the standard autopilot package. But maybe, just maybe a SW update will allow it auto re-engage after a manual lane change, so I don't have to constantly play whack a mole with stalks like a dumb f*ck).

 

[MikeGracz]

And yet, Tesla defines Autopilot thusly:

Autopilot:​

Autopilot includes the following functionality and features:

• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control: Matches the speed of your car to that of the surrounding traffic
• Autosteer: Assists in steering within a clearly marked lane, and uses traffic-aware cruise control

Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability | Tesla Support

Autopilot is an advanced driver assistance system that enhances safety and convenience behind the wheel. When used properly, Autopilot reduces your overall workload as a driver. Learn more about Autopilot.

www.tesla.com

(This is one of my bitches about this forum and others. People throw around Tesla words or acronyms without using them properly and then everyone gets into a huff saying YES! AP does this and NO! AP doesn't do that. In this post-truth world, all words mean whatever anyone wants them to mean which severely impairs the ability to communicate with other people since one cannot assume a basic vocabulary with which to communicate.)

Thanks for the clarification!
You can engage Traffic-Aware Cruise Control separately from TACC + Autosteer, so they are two things you can use separately (different methodsof engagement in different models, or even the same model- you can chose how to engage them under Autopilot settings). I had always thought of "Autopilot" as Tesla's name for the TACC part, and Autosteer as something more, but I was mistaken.

Autosteer+TACC is what disengages when you change lanes if you have not paid for Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving. If you are driving with only TACC engaged, regardless of what you paid for, then you can use your turn signal and change lanes without disengaging TACC.

If I lived somewhere where I did a lot of long driving on the interstate highway system I would probably opt for Enhanced Autopilot. Auto Lane Change is really nice cruising across Montana or South Dakota or somewhere like that. I had it on a Turo rental that had FSD for about 6 weeks and drove across the US and back and really liked it. I was disappointed to not have Auto Lane Change on my car when I picked it up in the lower 48, but up here in Alaska there is little use for it, and back when I bought the car EA was not an option. I'll probably purchase a monthly subscription to FSD on my next trip south! It's nice that that is an option!

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Thanks for the clarification!
You can engage Traffic-Aware Cruise Control separately from TACC + Autosteer, so they are two things you can use separately (different methodsof engagement in different models, or even the same model- you can chose how to engage them under Autopilot settings). I had always thought of "Autopilot" as Tesla's name for the TACC part, and Autosteer as something more, but I was mistaken.

Autosteer+TACC is what disengages when you change lanes if you have not paid for Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self Driving. If you are driving with only TACC engaged, regardless of what you paid for, then you can use your turn signal and change lanes without disengaging TACC.

If I lived somewhere where I did a lot of long driving on the interstate highway system I would probably opt for Enhanced Autopilot. Auto Lane Change is really nice cruising across Montana or South Dakota or somewhere like that. I had it on a Turo rental that had FSD for about 6 weeks and drove across the US and back and really liked it. I was disappointed to not have Auto Lane Change on my car when I picked it up in the lower 48, but up here in Alaska there is little use for it, and back when I bought the car EA was not an option. I'll probably purchase a monthly subscription to FSD on my next trip south! It's nice that that is an option!

I didn't understand what we were getting when we ordered FSD (that was my husband's addition, I got the hitch.)

My advice to US residents is to pass on FSD and subscribe to FSD to get the EAP features when they think they would use it. Its a helluva lot cheaper especially in states with winter driving conditions and spring pothole conditions.

Unfortunately, that isn't available to Canadian drivers. So I would recommend EAP. That's all I use of what I have bought anyway. We are currently on FSDb 11.4.2 and I'm pissed I don't get the UI changes I want because I have effing FSDb which I don't use. This has not been a good car for marital harmony and as we are a single car family, harmony will only return when the car or my husband dies.

 

[MikeGracz]

I think there are two ways to think about the value of FSD: 1) its actual utility; 2) your contribution to its development.
I applaud the folks who are willing/able to contribute to the development of something that will eventually be close to "Full Self Driving". Even "Frequently Self Driving" will be very valuable!
This stuff takes the work of a lot of talented engineers, and they need to be paid!

 

[Danny K]

Coming from VW group of Lane assist and ACC for 7 years to TMY, this is the worst experience I have driving Tesla on highways. It is terribly annoying that every time you have to change the lane or take over the steering the AP disengages completely whereas it should disengage only temporarily until the driver deactivates it manually. The current logic behind implementation of AP makes it absolutely useless.

 

[PianoAl]

I'd suggest that Tesla change things so that Basic AP automatically changes lanes when you depress the turn signal stalk. Why? Because it's an important safety feature. The car can change lanes much more safely than a human.

 

[UncleCreepy]

The car can change lanes much more safely than a human.

I have seen FSD at work and I honestly doubt that. It apparently didn't know that it's a good idea to accelerate when getting on a highway or that the acceleration lane will eventually end. When my car wanted to change lanes there was someone in the left lane like 100 yards back waiting for me to change lanes and all the car did was to signal left without ever moving.

Granted that things may have improved over time I was not impressed and I don't have any intention paying a single cent to let the car do something that I can do better for free.