Autopilot needs manual lane change without disengage

[enemji]

I'd suggest that Tesla change things so that Basic AP automatically changes lanes when you depress the turn signal stalk. Why? Because it's an important safety feature. The car can change lanes much more safely than a human.

and cannibalize FSD?

 

[Danny K]

I'd suggest that Tesla change things so that Basic AP automatically changes lanes when you depress the turn signal stalk. Why? Because it's an important safety feature. The car can change lanes much more safely than a human.

I absolutely disagree with this, particularly Tesla safety system is purely based on imaging system, if it would combine imagine with LiDAR and Radar then may be to some extent yes, but absolutely not for only imaging based driving assistance. Even when there are no vehicles in front of you or behind you for KMs the system breaks violently randomly out of nothing on an absolutely vast empty road, just happened to me yesterday, felt like it would break my little one’s neck. This system is so bad it should not be even legally allowed at least in EU even as an option. The autopilot should be banned just like FSD in EU until Tesla resolves it. I don’t want anyone or anything to change the lanes for me, I will change the lane myself, just keep the lane assist engaged until I tell it to shut off temporarily or permanently.

 

[jsnfox]

I'd suggest that Tesla change things so that Basic AP automatically changes lanes when you depress the turn signal stalk. Why? Because it's an important safety feature. The car can change lanes much more safely than a human.

That won't happen, they want you to upgrade to EAP or FSD for that.....which is fine IMO.

Just add automatic re-engagement after a manual lane change to basic AP and they'll at least be on par with other manufactures. I also wish they'd get rid of the +5 mph limit on 2 lane highways too.

 

[JohnB007]

I absolutely disagree with this, particularly Tesla safety system is purely based on imaging system, if it would combine imagine with LiDAR and Radar then may be to some extent yes, but absolutely not for only imaging based driving assistance. Even when there are no vehicles in front of you or behind you for KMs the system breaks violently randomly out of nothing on an absolutely vast empty road, just happened to me yesterday, felt like it would break my little one’s neck. This system is so bad it should not be even legally allowed at least in EU even as an option. The autopilot should be banned just like FSD in EU until Tesla resolves it. I don’t want anyone or anything to change the lanes for me, I will change the lane myself, just keep the lane assist engaged until I tell it to shut off temporarily or permanently.

At least in Canada, FSD on highways work quite well. 90% of my highway lane changes are now done either automatically (light traffic condition) or through signalling, rather than manual lane changes. It even automatically changes back to the right lane if a faster car approaches from behind you.

It is much better than it was about a year ago (it was borderline laughable) and it is improving (with some random regressions here and there)... Hopefully, soon, at least those who want to experience FSD in EU will get them. And a subset of FSD will eventually become AP...

 

[gtae07]

Just add automatic re-engagement after a manual lane change to basic AP

I'd be happy with that, and even happier if they could use the camera etc. to ditch the wheel nags altogether. I have yet to really find a position for my hands that is both comfortable for longer duration and yet also prevents the nags.

That would be good enough for me, because I don't see FSD reaching the point I'd be willing to pay for it within the forseeable future.

 

[PianoAl]

I have yet to really find a position for my hands that is both comfortable for longer duration and yet also prevents the nags.

I bend my right leg and rest the knee against the center console. Then I put my wrist against the knee and hold the wheel loosely, letting wheel slip through the hand with only a little resistance. No nags.

But often I prefer to have my foot right by the accelerator pedal.

 

[PianoAl]

>>

I'd suggest that Tesla change things so that Basic AP automatically changes lanes when you depress the turn signal stalk. Why? Because it's an important safety feature. The car can change lanes much more safely than a human.

and cannibalize FSD?

I get that. Here's my thinking:

Basic Autopilot (free) already cannibalizes FSD, it's just a matter of where to draw the line. BAP keeps you safe on the highway, but as soon as you change lanes manually depending on your eyes and distracted brain, you've lost that protection. Adding this one feature (but not auto lane change) would save a few lives.

When I drive Nick (see sig), I never change lanes manually (that is, I just depress the stalk or let the car decide when to change lanes). When I drive Tessie, I find lane changes annoying, but not annoying enough to spend $6K or $15K.

 

[enemji]

>>




I get that. Here's my thinking:

Basic Autopilot (free) already cannibalizes FSD, it's just a matter of where to draw the line. BAP keeps you safe on the highway, but as soon as you change lanes manually depending on your eyes and distracted brain, you've lost that protection. Adding this one feature (but not auto lane change) would save a few lives.

When I drive Nick (see sig), I never change lanes manually (that is, I just depress the stalk or let the car decide when to change lanes). When I drive Tessie, I find lane changes annoying, but not annoying enough to spend $6K or $15K.

I agree with you on that. I am just putting forth what Tesla is thinking

 

[SidetrackedSue]

At least in Canada, FSD on highways work quite well.

I just checked to see which province you are in and then was scratching my head.

We are in Eastern Ontario and on the 417 there are many reproduceable errors in the system. On lessor rural highways it is unable to handle passing lanes (although has improved greatly in the past year. This week we are on a road trip and leg one to Quebec City was almost flawless. The NAV steered us wrong twice going around Montreal but FSDb was working extremely well (11.4.2, set on chill, regular lane change setting).

The following day, it nearly ditched us, moving into a right turn lane while "following" the route and then trying to move us back into the straight thru lane but traffic was there and then there was no road ahead left, just a ditch (so an emergency disengagement.)

As for the passing lanes in Maine, it was running at 50/50 which lane it would pick and we couldn't figure out the pattern but had fun making bets with each other as to whether or not it would move over. It was slow to do so but sometimes did, but not other times. We never figured out the magic conditions (although curved road and steepness of hill played a role.) If there was someone behind us we'd disengage and move over immediately because unlike Ontario ones, these were very short, sometimes only 2 cars could get by before we had to move back into the thru lane (but FSDb handled that flawlessly, something it can't do in Ontario due to the way Ontario paints the lane merge.)

I agree, FSD can work well but it really seems to be in areas where there is more mapping. The 417 through Ottawa has been under construction for years and in my area FSD still displays the reduced speed limit that was lifted over 2 years ago, and in another area still thinks a lane has to exit, so moves out of it, even though it is needed within 1km.

Edited to add: we have driven over 1500 highway KMs in the past 3 days and only one phantom braking incident. And that's the first phantom braking incident we've had in months except for a reproduceable one on Highway 7 between Ottawa and Carleton Place. Since it is reproduceable, it doesn't catch us, we see a specific building and know to press on the go-pedal as we go by it. So I nearly forgot about it.

 

[jjtdmd2003@yah]

Kia does it...for example, our *base model* Niro EV.
Hyundai does it....for example, the 55 mpg Ioniq...basically an economy car.
Subaru does it.
Mercedes does it.
Probably others but not worth my time to research any more in depth.

It seems pretty common, and most likely just a reasonably easy software upgrade.

The user friendliness of systems that work this way, vs one that doesn't, is a glaring defect in usability.

For a system that is supposed to make driving more hassle free and relaxing, constantly disengaging and re-engaging AP over and over and over and over with every lane change is a PITA. It really flies in the face of how easy and user friendly Tesla tends to make the entire ownership and driving experience.

Need to drive your car? Just get in and drive. No key. No unlock command. No start button to push. Just get in and drive. Need to stop driving? Just get out and walk away. No need to turn the car off. No key to remember to take with you. No door lock command to worry about.

Auto wipers..mine work great. Washer fluid...my first gallon lasted 5 months because Tesla doesn't spray a quart at a time all over the window and roof of the car. Just a nice efficient spread across the wiper itself. So different, and works so great.

Auto high beam...mine work great, no thought involved, its just automatic.

Leaving for work? Swipe down...navigation. Going home? Swipe down, navigation.

Supercharger integration with the car and navigation. Amazing. Flawless. So much more user friendly than anyone else.

There are soooo many features that just work so simply....

But AP.....engage, disengage, re-engage, disengage, re-engage, over and over and over. Its just dumb.

Read all of your posts to this point and I must say I’m in total agreement. About three months behind in ownership and just experienced your AP frustration on first long trip. From what I understand it used to do this but no longer; sounds like a sneaky way to increase the price. Other than this quirkiness of AP I really like the car. Weary of reading this thread at this point but wanted you to know you’ve got a mental doppelgänger out there.

 

[UncleCreepy]

But AP.....engage, disengage, re-engage, disengage, re-engage, over and over and over. Its just dumb.

That's how it works for me (basic AP, 2022.20.8). With a later software it would potentially be even worse, like...
AP engage, toggle auto highbeams off since I hate them, be annoyed about auto-wipers. And I'd have to do that every time I just change a lane. For me, it's not so much about the radar anymore, I just don't want the car or Elon decide how I use my car. My AP is working just fine without auto wipers and auto highbeams. Forcing that crap on me is just stupid. At this point I'm surprised that I can still choose how cold or warm I want my car to be..

And since my windshield has been treated with Aquapel, I barely ever want to use the windshield wipers top begin with.

I just hope they won't force the update via LTE one day. So far I've been lucky. All I need to put up with is the constant AP engage/disengage.which I've come to terms with.

 

[EatsShoots]

Got our model 3 today, without EAP or FSD.

I found the lack of keeping auto-steer on not quite as annoying as I had thought. I had at least three phantom breaking sessions in about 250 miles of TACC on. One case the road went from asphalt to concrete, another there was a car pulled over (properly on shoulder), and in another it decided it didn't want to pass a truck. Despite this the braking was not severe and I used it the entire time. Autosteer was pretty good with minimal nagging. Definitely usable but as it is now AP has a long, long way to go before it's "finished".

 

[yessuz]

Update. Manufacturers that work as they should( i.e. allow manual lane change without disengaging and re-engaging every time):

Kia does it.
Hyundai does it(2019 , not sure how much earlier).
Subaru does it.
Mercedes does it.
Volkswagen does it....back since at least 2018 according to a post in this thread.
Honda.

It's a very basic, user friendly feature.

add bmw and many other manufacturers, including ALL EV )))

 

[yessuz]

Coming from VW group of Lane assist and ACC for 7 years to TMY, this is the worst experience I have driving Tesla on highways. It is terribly annoying that every time you have to change the lane or take over the steering the AP disengages completely whereas it should disengage only temporarily until the driver deactivates it manually. The current logic behind implementation of AP makes it absolutely useless.

S3XY buttons with commander is your answer.

it auto re-enables auto pilot in timeframe (2-3s) after lane change.

it's third party hardware, but it is flawless. only issue is bing bong

 

[yessuz]

I bought S3XY buttons as it was main gripe with the stupidity of basic AP (Autosteer + TACC) implementation and need to manually re-engage it every bloody time.
So currently, apart from EAP/FSD the only solution is this.

It still have this stupidly annoying audio notification (why tesla, why???) but at least it auto re-enables AP after lane change

I am not affiliated with them. but jesus wept... why tesla is so stubborn?

 

[Dylan McNamee]

We recently upgraded from a 2015 MS to a 2023 MSLR. As one person earlier in this thread noted, the 2015's basic AP does exactly what folks here want: on AP, engaging the turn signal 'does its best to check that it's safe' then changes lanes and turns off the signal, all while under auto-steer. To take this away in the base models of today is just weird, especially since this is the basic behavior of pretty much all new cars today. Hmmm. So the question for us is to upgrade to EAP or FSD.

 

[mspohr]

We recently upgraded from a 2015 MS to a 2023 MSLR. As one person earlier in this thread noted, the 2015's basic AP does exactly what folks here want: on AP, engaging the turn signal 'does its best to check that it's safe' then changes lanes and turns off the signal, all while under auto-steer. To take this away in the base models of today is just weird, especially since this is the basic behavior of pretty much all new cars today. Hmmm. So the question for us is to upgrade to EAP or FSD.

I think they removed it so they could charge you for EAP to get that functionality back.

 

[Dewg]

Aside from people just being cheap (who wouldn't want Nike shoes for the price of Vans), there are three "trim" levels in a Tesla. You want the functionality of the 2nd and 3rd trim levels. So buy the 2nd or 3rd trim levels.

"But, but, but the competition has that functionality in their base trim!!!" So go buy a pair of Vans instead of the Nikes - cuz the Nikes are more expensive for the same thing - a pair of shoes.

 

[PianoAl]

When I drive Tessie, I find lane changes annoying, but not annoying enough to spend $6K or $15K.

I have since decided to add FSD to Tessie (see sig), but I've done it via subscription.

 

[mspohr]

Aside from people just being cheap (who wouldn't want Nike shoes for the price of Vans), there are three "trim" levels in a Tesla. You want the functionality of the 2nd and 3rd trim levels. So buy the 2nd or 3rd trim levels.

"But, but, but the competition has that functionality in their base trim!!!" So go buy a pair of Vans instead of the Nikes - cuz the Nikes are more expensive for the same thing - a pair of shoes.

The discouraging thing is that they removed functionality from AP and then charge you to put it back.
My old 2015 SD had this functionality but it was removed in my 2022 SLR.
I think we can call this greed.

In addition, I never had phantom braking with my 2015 S but this occurs often enough with my 2022 SLR that I'm afraid to use it and I definitely don't want to send them more money.