freeewilly
Member
Compare with other options, I think $2500 or $3000 for autopilot is still the most valuable option.
$1500 for carbon fiber spoiler, $2300 red brake caliber
$1500 for carbon fiber spoiler, $2300 red brake caliber
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Bimbels
GoldMember
According to the Electrek article, Tesla responded that the price increase is not because of new hardware, but rather "better value." So no confirmation there is any new hardware.
Of course, would they say otherwise and hint at the hardware upgrade? I doubt it.
Bimbels
GoldMember
Well exactly. I would not be surprised if they were being coy. Just trying to set expectations, should someone order now and not get the unannounced hardware they were hoping for.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's not going to be tied with hardware regardless. The way Tesla had done things in the past, they will add the new hardware when it is ready and it may have nothing to do with what you paid. It is entirely conceivable that a person who paid $2.5k will end up with new hardware or someone who paid $3k will end up with no new hardware.
Here's another thought:
What if there are too many people ordering with AP? They may well be using telemetry from non-AP cars to improve AP. After all, what better source of figuring out the correct way of driving than tapping into Tesla owners who are driving without AP? Sure, some are distracted or not paying enough attention, but with enough data you can likely weed those out and figure out what a human would do in all sorts of circumstances.
My guess is the real reason is not this, but supply and demand (from my non-scientific review of used Tesla pricing, AP goes for much more than $3K on used Teslas).
What if there are too many people ordering with AP? They may well be using telemetry from non-AP cars to improve AP. After all, what better source of figuring out the correct way of driving than tapping into Tesla owners who are driving without AP? Sure, some are distracted or not paying enough attention, but with enough data you can likely weed those out and figure out what a human would do in all sorts of circumstances.
My guess is the real reason is not this, but supply and demand (from my non-scientific review of used Tesla pricing, AP goes for much more than $3K on used Teslas).
Sir Guacamolaf
The good kind of fat
The original question .. Autopilot is 3k now because Tesla believes the market can support the 3k price. Simple as that.
Now why do they believe that? Autopilot in its current form is better than any such feature in any other car, but I also feel that 8.0 is about to make autopilot substantially better, and the increase in price is perhaps justified.
Now why do they believe that? Autopilot in its current form is better than any such feature in any other car, but I also feel that 8.0 is about to make autopilot substantially better, and the increase in price is perhaps justified.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Perhaps it's also positioning in advance of the next announcement.
For example, it's an easier leap from $3K for AP1.0 to $5K for AP2.0. Just saying, although I doubt we'll see AP2.0 (hardware - more cameras, more sensors) for another year or so.
What we will see is firmware v8.0, and that should be fun.
The wildcard seems to be AP1.5, whatever that might be.
Tangentially, am a big fan of placing an order immediately after a big announcement. Seems to reduce the chance of getting caught by surprise, as it were.
Don't forget that by also slowly increasing the price of certain options when it's time to price the options for a model 3 they won't be too low. Many on the model 3 side have come to assume that AP and such will be around 1500 because the vehicle is cheaper , well if AP is $4000 by the time the 3 is released then it might still be $2500
Canuck
Well-Known Member
The gas savings is not the issue. Not burning gas, and running on clean renewable energy (mostly hydro in BC) is the issue.
I have three children and I'm concerned about their future. Buying a Tesla to me was not about "a thing that transports me from one place to another," like it is for you. It's about my children's future. But at the same time, I'm not so naive as to think I am changing the world by buying a Tesla, or that Tesla itself will even change the world, since I think it's too late, and we're circling the drain, but I do have my legacy. In fact that's all I've got is my legacy. And when my kids and grandchildren (to come) look back on me when I'm gone, they will be able to say that I had a Leaf and a Tesla long before most people had even one electric vehicle. At least I made an effort, even if it was made in vain. That's why I took issue with your statement about "counterparts" to Tesla and it still applies for me. You may see ICE makers as counterparts to Tesla but I do not at all.
Nobody, and I mean nobody is going to look at somebody driving a P100D and say "Wow! What a wonderful and selfless person... giving up their hard earned cash to finance my child's future!".
Maybe not but at the same time at least the thought that crosses my mind when I see people driving a Hummer doesn't come to mind.
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fallen888
Participant
I didn't get AP when placed my order. My DS told me today that I'd get charged the full $3,500 to activate AP even though I haven't actually taken delivery yet.
I didn't get AP when placed my order. My DS told me today that I'd get charged the full $3,500 to activate AP even though I haven't actually taken delivery yet.
That sucks
Was curious what would happen to existing orders/owners for upgrade prices if they changed. Can you upgrade it now before taking delivery at the original price? Not sure if it's something you want... but would be curious if you haven't taken delivery if you can add on AP. Mind you, likely have to pay the $500 change to order fee... so maybe that's a wash?
fallen888
Participant
@javawolfpack That's what I'm saying, it's too late for me to get the old price or the $500 pre-delivery discount. Here's exactly what she said:
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
Without more hardware, you have to keep your eyes on the road at all times, or you risk an accident like the one involving the fatality. Without a camera/sensor at eye level or higher, no new software would have avoided that accident -- only the driver could have. The only way AP can get "substantially better" is with more hardware, at least in my opinion, and until that time I have very little interest in a system that can drive me under a trailer bed during a momentary lapse of attention. Yes, it is probably saving lives, and yes it is better than nothing. But I had it for a week on a loaner car and I did not find it relaxing at all -- during which I time I did a lot of highway driving. I'm looking to upgrade but won't do it until I know for certain I am getting version 2 hardware. I also know version 2 software is a longer way off, but I don't think the hardware is, and having just missed AP hardware the first time, I can wait as long as it takes for the new hardware -- possibly until the Model 3 since I still really like my non-AP, big frunk, 80amp charging car, and I am looking forward to a fully loaded smaller car in the Model 3 and keeping both cars. I'm certain it will be on the 3 and thus it has to be on the S by that time. It may not be during this price hike and changes, but it's obviously coming.
It also causes me concern if Tesla is selling version 8 as making AP "substantially better". That's a recipe for disaster with its very limited hardware suite, if you ask me (and I know no one did!).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The same exact thought crossed my mind. A lot of people speculated AP would be substantially cheaper (like the $1500 you mentioned). This price increase may be to preempt that kind of thinking. Now they can still offer the AP for $2000-2500 on the Model 3 and it'll still be "cheaper than Model S" but won't be as cheap as people might have expected otherwise.
Sir Guacamolaf
The good kind of fat
I think "have to keep your eyes on the road" requirement will be here for a while.
However, Elon did tweet that they've been able to significantly increase the resolution of the objects detected by varying the wavelength of the radar. So that sort of tells me that they have been able to extract much more mileage out of existing hardware than previously intended or is in cars currently.
Secondly, reading the tea-leaves, it looked like ModelX housing was made for multiple camera sensors. However, Elon then tweeted the above, followed by breaking their partnership with mobileeye, followed by not introducing such hardware in Model S, followed by making it clear that the $500 increase is to reflect value, not more hardware, ... followed by ... Elon clearly saying 8.0 has significant improvements in AP applicable to all cars. Plus, additional hardware costs $$, software can be applied to the entire existing fleet. All these can't be a co-incidence, the timing is way too uncanny
.Of course, I am predicting (no insider info), but signs seems to be fairly strong that 8.0 will bring significant improvements to all existing cars with AP hardware. And AP2.0 hardware, will eventually happen, but not this year.
If I had to put my finger in the air, I think Model 3 will roll out with exactly the same AP capabilities Model S has now. And once Model 3 is "ironed out", Tesla will then focus on redesigning Model S significantly. This means redoing the chassis to accommodate new cell dimensions, a modernized body (not just a flat nose), and place for APvNext housing, and they will then roll out AP truly next generation after Model 3 has been on the road for a couple of years. In the meanwhile, they will add minor "premium improvements" to Model S, but they do also need to justify why Model S costs more - because it has newer cooler stuff! .. but that's 2-3 years out.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Of course that will be the requirement, including having your hands on the steering wheel at all times, as we know everyone does. This isn't about the requirement, it's about confidence in the system and hardware. As I said before, if I get in an accident and die due to my own fault I can live with that (even though I am dead). If my AP kills me during a momentary lapse of attention, I can't live with that.
Not a chance hardware wise. I don't know what you mean by "capabilities" though since the formal requirements will likely read the same for a very, very long time (until autonomous driving is here). But again, that's not my reason for wanting (or requiring) new hardware.
Tesla Autopilot 2.0: next gen Autopilot powered by more radar, new triple camera, some equipment already in production
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I didn't get AP when placed my order. My DS told me today that I'd get charged the full $3,500 to activate AP even though I haven't actually taken delivery yet.
I think others have gotten the reduced price before delivery talk to their supervisor if necessary
fallen888
Participant
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