Autopilot speeding ticket

[bob_p]

The current speed limit database has so many errors, that it can't be relied on to be accurate - especially in locations where there has been recent construction or road changes. We have some places where the speed limit database believes the speed limit is higher than the posted speed limit, increasing the risk of getting a speeding ticket.

Tesla will need to get this fixed, if their goal is to (eventually) achieve full self driving.

It's also very likely that FSD software will be required to strictly adhere to all traffic laws - obeying the posted speed limits, coming to a full stop at stop signs, etc. So a side effect of getting FSD could be traffic slowing down to the posted speed limits...

 

[Acho]

I have AP1 and the car never automatically slowed down because of speed limit change. I have to manually change the max speed for AP/TACC. It displays the new limit on the dash but that's about it. Is there a setting I am missing to make it work?

 

[kavyboy]

I have AP1 and the car never automatically slowed down because of speed limit change. I have to manually change the max speed for AP/TACC. It displays the new limit on the dash but that's about it. Is there a setting I am missing to make it work?

It will slow down due to limiting the AP speed to the speed limit plus 5 MPH on undivided roads. On divided highways, there are no AP limits. TACC has no such limits.

 

[fasteddie7]

Made this where the incident occurred:

 

[Lucky_Man]

So here's an interesting one. My buddy was traveling on a stretch of road we both travel frequently. The road goes from 50 to 35. Autopilot slows down automatically here but only starts slowing down as soon as the sign passes the front bumper. The cop clocked him as he reached the sign going 50 while the car was adjusting down to 35. Anyone else out there have a similar experience. Seems a little trappy to me. Thoughts?

Yep. Speed trap: laws enacted to 'keep the local govt. running' (read: line the local pol's pockets).

Was there a sign informing drivers that there is a "Reduced Speed Ahead"? If you aren't paying attention, they're gonna nab you, so don't blame AP* or Elon's teams.

Info - there's a city just North of Denver where the cops scan passing cars with binoculars. They're looking for *ANYTHING* that blocks a driver's view, including radar detectors, dash cams, hanging deodorizers, dreamcatchers, maps, books, papers, pets, etc. They flat-out reject any excuses, unless it's factory-installed. $$$$$

 

[Dameon]

My AP1 has always detected speed limit signs as soon as they enter the plane of the front bumper. It doesn't change my set speed, but if I pull the AP stalk towards me and hold it the set speed changes to the detected sign speed. It has never detected nor changed behavior on the "speed zone coming up" signs.

 

[fasteddie7]

Was there a sign informing drivers that there is a "Reduced Speed Ahead"? If you aren't paying attention, they're gonna nab you, so don't blame AP* or Elon's teams.

There is but my point is autopilot is going to need to account for this when cars do end up at FSD they will have to obey the different laws by state. But it's worth mentioning to the community because I can see owners gettong nabbed and not understanding why. I didn't.

 

[MP3Mike]

The cop clocked him as he reached the sign going 50 while the car was adjusting down to 35.

Last I heard here in Oregon you have ~100 yards, or something, to adjust your speed after the sign.

 

[Dameon]

Last I heard here in Oregon you have ~300 yards, or something, to adjust your speed after the sign.

Around here the zone is technically AT the sign. If we had a 300 yard allowance, there would be fewer zones as our area is infamous for 100 yard school zones. These zones have additional requirements (no mobile usage for one) and probably aren't the best candidates for AP.

 

[ArizonaP85]

Tell your friend to review the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) for sign placement, height, prior reduced speed limit ahead signage, etc.

EVERY state must follow the MUTCD to get that delicious federal highway money, but many speedtraps like you describe do not comply in one or more ways. Moreover, there is caselaw in a number of states that signs which do not comply with MUTCD have no legal effect.

Speedtraps also often fail to have traffic studies or engineering designs supporting the lower limits. In fact, sometime the engineering designs show that the minimum "recommended limit" shown on added yellow warning signs would be substantially higher than the black and white speed limit regulatory signs!

It all depends on how much time and effort your friend wants to invest in researching the speedtrap - perhaps local TV might run an expose? Good cops can often help because they know that speedtraps lead to disrespect of the entire criminal justice system: law enforcement, prosecutors and courts.

Google "New Rome" speedtrap -- the amazing thing about that whole decades-long debacle is that NONE of the speedtrap signs complied with the MUTCD (and Ohio is a state with specific appellate case law requiring strict compliance with MUTCD) but no one knew enough to expose it.

Good luck and keep driving safely!

 

[Sprandt23]

In my experience, AP1 does reduce your speed to a max of 5mph over the posted speed limit, unless you are on an Interstate. Even on a divided 4 lane 'highway' that is not recognized as an interstate (US or State highways), which I drive every day to work, my AP is limited to 5mph over. I'm guessing there is some connection with AP to the GPS mapping that knows what type of road you are driving on.

 

[fasteddie7]

In my experience, AP1 does reduce your speed to a max of 5mph over the posted speed limit, unless you are on an Interstate. Even on a divided 4 lane 'highway' that is not recognized as an interstate (US or State highways), which I drive every day to work, my AP is limited to 5mph over. I'm guessing there is some connection with AP to the GPS mapping that knows what type of road you are driving on.

It does indeed. It's the when that is the issue. It reduces as the vehicles nose passes the sign, which is too late. It needs to reduce several hundred feet prior to not be a violation.

 

[Sprandt23]

It does indeed. It's the when that is the issue. It reduces as the vehicles nose passes the sign, which is too late. It needs to reduce several hundred feet prior to not be a violation.

Yep, I meant to include that thought as well - I agree that it is right when the car passes the sign - I was more addressing the slow down debate in AP1 vs AP2(2.5etc). I will also add if you are on an Interstate highway and the speed limit drops, AP1 will NOT reduce your speed, even if you are over the 5mph 'cushion.'

 

[Mirlen]

So here's an interesting one. My buddy was traveling on a stretch of road we both travel frequently. The road goes from 50 to 35. Autopilot slows down automatically here but only starts slowing down as soon as the sign passes the front bumper. The cop clocked him as he reached the sign going 50 while the car was adjusting down to 35. Anyone else out there have a similar experience. Seems a little trappy to me. Thoughts?

In my state I believe you have 500 feet beyond the speed limit sign to decelerate to that speed.

 

[Mirlen]

In my state I believe you have 500 feet beyond the speed limit sign to decelerate to that speed.

(e) Distance requirements for use of mechanical, electrical and electronic devices.--Mechanical, electrical or electronic devices may not be used to time the rate of speed of vehicles within 500 feet after a speed limit sign indicating a decrease of speed. This limitation on the use of speed timing devices shall not apply to speed limit signs indicating school zones, bridge and elevated structure speed limits, hazardous grade speed limits and work zone speed limits.

So technically it's about measuring the speed but it's in place to allow the driver to slow down and eliminate this aggressive enforcement behavior.

 

[brkaus]

I have an AP1 loaner right now. My AP2 is in the shop.

Definitely slows down at the signs. Right at the signs.

Definitely missed some signs in my area.

Sometimes doesn’t even show a speed limit. Even on places my AP2 car shows something. I thought it used the database as backup.

Oh well.

Sorry about your friends ticket. We have lots of little speed trap towns here that police sit at the signs with radar. At least I know where to find them!

 

[fasteddie7]

I have an AP1 loaner right now. My AP2 is in the shop.

Definitely slows down at the signs. Right at the signs.

Definitely missed some signs in my area.

Sometimes doesn’t even show a speed limit. Even on places my AP2 car shows something. I thought it used the database as backup.

Oh well.

Sorry about your friends ticket. We have lots of little speed trap towns here that police sit at the signs with radar. At least I know where to find them!

Have to wonder what will become of speed traps when there’s no driver. Either way, I hope this gets updated soon to start slowing down early.

 

[brkaus]

Have to wonder what will become of speed traps when there’s no driver. Either way, I hope this gets updated soon to start slowing down early.

I’ve wondered this for a while. Seams like it would be easy to pick off AP cars at 1mph over the limit and start sending bills to manufactures.

 

[JohnnyG]

I have an AP1 loaner right now. .....
Sometimes doesn’t even show a speed limit. Even on places my AP2 car shows something. I thought it used the database as backup......!

It used to use the database as the primary, and then use signs as it read them. That way if it missed a sign (or a sign was missing), you'd still have something to go by. I don't remember the date, but I definitely remember when they changed it. It went from awesome, to irritating at times. Before the change it seemed uncannily perfect; but then after the change it fell from it's pedestal. Now it just uses some general rule of thumb if it doesn't read a sign. There are many stretches of road now, that I can initially set AP at 45MPH, even though the road is 35MPH. It eventually reads a sign and drops down, but it's using 45MPH as some general rule of thumb for many roads.

 

[JohnnyG]

..... Google "New Rome" speedtrap -- the amazing thing about that whole decades-long debacle is that NONE of the speedtrap signs complied with the MUTCD (and Ohio is a state with specific appellate case law requiring strict compliance with MUTCD) but no one knew enough to expose it.....

Wow! I didn't know we were that famous!! lol
I live 8 miles from what was once New Rome.
After that crackdown, the township was dissolved... Good riddance!